Q&A 35: Does the Bible say that God is limited &/or that He changes? - Part II

Last week, we introduced a question here, does the Bible, especially the five books of Moses, say that God is limited and or that He changes? We began looking at this question, the reason being, there is, first of all, there are a number of passages, and we've addressed some of them, that if we look at them, might make us wonder. You know, here's God asking Adam questions, you know, like, you know, Where are you? Does that mean God doesn't know? We see passages that talk, we pointed out one in Jeremiah where it says that God was tired. So what are these kinds of statements or questions that we're encountering here?

And one of the reasons why that's an important one is there is a belief that's been growing popularity among Christians called open theism, the idea that God is somehow limited, that God doesn't know the future, that God changes. And along with that, it parallels some issues with, for instance, Mormonism that says that God was once a man and that God has a body just like we have a body. And it even goes to the point where when Mary conceived Jesus, it was a result of the father who had a body having sexual intimacy with Mary. And that's how Jesus was conceived. So it does bring up some big questions. And we pointed out that there's a lot in common between this view of open theism, the idea that God is limited, that God doesn't know the future, that God changes, and the gods of paganism.

So anyway, we looked at some passages there. We looked at passages, for example, we gave an instance on page 3, Psalm 988. Let the rivers clap their hands and let the mountains sing together for joy. What kind of an expression is that? Is that to be taken literally?

We use the word anthropomorphism. If that word doesn't stick in your mind, don't worry about it. In truth, it is possible to simplify this entire issue. And it comes to this. that the Bible says explicitly that God does not change, that those explicit statements are what ought to govern our understandings, that everything from the mountains and the rivers clapping their hands and shouting and things like that, to God asking questions, or one of the things we noted, here is Noah in the ark, and it says God remembered Noah. These are figures of speech.

The term is anthropomorphism, and there are a couple of subsets of that, but if that doesn't stick in your mind, no problem, because the big picture is that scripture is written in such a way that we can relate to it because it is human-like characteristics. It is not intended to describe God as being just a human. But it is intended to speak to us in a way that we can relate to. Not so that we can reduce and cut back the character of God.

God is from everlasting to everlasting, and He doesn't change. God knows everything. When we are told in Scripture that God works everything for good, that we are being conformed to the image of His Son, that's not just God's good intent, but in fact something we can count upon. God doesn't make promises that are just kind of God's best shot.

He'll really try hard. No, it's not like that, is it? So, that's what we introduced last time. There are expressions of God physically. For example, it talks about God's eyes. Does it mean that God has eyeballs? Oh, and by the way, does God ever need glasses? Well, and especially as old as God is, does that mean he has presbyopia, like me, right? No. That's not the case, is it?

These are figures of speech that we talked about God's hands. One of the points we made last week is that when it says that God does something with his hands, it means it's something he does in the physical universe. The scripture is consistent, Old and New Testament, in that regard, but also when the Old or New Testament says that God does something without hands, it means that God does something in the spiritual realm. See the distinction there? God says that he does something with hands, it's something God does in the physical realm. For example, what are some things that God does in the physical realm, or did in the physical realm? He created everything. He parted the sea. Yeah, things that God does in the physical realm, whether it's initial creation or miraculous, since the creation, those are things that are done by God's hand.

That's the figure of speech. It doesn't mean that God's got fingers. It doesn't mean that God's got skin and bones. But it's a figure of speech. And then without hands, And yet God does things without hands. That figure of speech means that God has done something in the physical realm. Right? So these are figures of speech.

Whether you remember anthropomorphism and anthropopraxism and anthropopathism and all that, I don't care so much about that. It's there if you really like those words and you like to put it under your pillow and sleep on it at night. But we won't worry about that. The point is we will encounter passages like this and we need to be prepared to understand them as figures of speech and not as a literal statement. One of the points we made is that when God takes you under his wing, that doesn't mean God's a chicken. Let's turn to page 5. We have a few points here.

I'm not going to go over every detail. As a matter of fact, we'll just state what we did last week. We're not going to go over every detail that's in this paper. It's there if you want the detail, but we won't go over it all. We won't have enough time.

But the first point on top of page 5, Open Theism selectively and arbitrarily interprets anthropomorphic language, that is, language that is designed to accommodate our human viewpoint. It does it literally when it relates to God's knowledge of the future, but inconsistently considers anthropomorphic and rhetorical those passages that imply that God does not even know the present or the past, or the past or the present.

An example we give there, Numbers 14.11, the Lord said to Moses, how long will this people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the signs which I have performed in their midst? Does that mean that God doesn't know? That God has no idea how long they're going to...

Is that what it means? No. No. It is a rhetorical statement, just like God asking for Adam, where are you? It's not because God doesn't know where Adam is, right? It is a rhetorical statement causing people to think, causing people to understand themselves.

So, here is an instance, Genesis 18.21, in the middle of page 5. I will go down now and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry which has come to me, and if not, I will know." Does that mean God doesn't even know what's going on now? Or has gone on in the recent past? No. It is language that is designed to accommodate the human viewpoint. Here's something else very interesting.

I'll only make brief notice of it because we talk about it in more detail later in this paper. and we won't have time to get to it. But what's interesting is in the latter centuries of the Old Testament period, this kind of language, this language that is designed to accommodate the human viewpoint, drops out. The Jews understood it when they read it, but they didn't continue to use that kind of language. So because of the change in culture, the language dropped out. When they would read it, they would understand it, but they wouldn't commonly talk that way. Let me give a for instance in our own case.

Do people still read and do dramatic presentations of the plays of Shakespeare now? Do people still do that? People still do, they read the Shakespearean plays and they will have plays of Shakespeare. Do people talk like that now? No. We don't talk in the same language. So even though we don't commonly use the figures of speech, the particular forms of language, that were common in the day of Shakespeare, we still can understand it.

And that was the case here with these Old Testament passages. About the time that the Jews were taken to Babylon was about the time many of these figures of speech dropped out. And you won't find them in the Old Testament after that period of time. They dropped out almost entirely. And so one of the things that I think is important is these figures of speech that seem to indicate that God changes or that God doesn't know things were something that was in use before the time of the Babylonian exile, but dropped out, stopped being used commonly after that time.

Okay? All right. Let's take a look at page 7. There is a line about a third of the way down the page I'd like to have us take a look at. It says there in bold print, the long-held principle of biblical interpretation has been that clear and explicit statements of scripture should be used to guide our understanding of historical and anthropomorphic, that is, man-accommodated, texts that are less clear. If we see a statement repeatedly in Scripture that says God does not change, if we see that explicit statement, we use that to guide something else that is written in non-explicit language. But we use that explicit statement to make clear that these other statements are figures of speech. or rhetorical. So that's the key point.

Given that, in the middle of page 7, we get this. The explicit statements of scripture that God knows the future. Here's Genesis 25-23. The Lord said to her, two nations are in your womb and two peoples will be separated from your body. And one people will be stronger than the other and the older shall serve the younger.

What was that passage from? Do you recall when we studied through Genesis? Who are these two peoples? Jacob and Esau, right? And so the Lord knew in advance that Jacob and Esau would be very different kinds of peoples. You have two brothers, but the reality is that the name of Jacob, later to be called Israel, would continue on in the name of Esau would not. It would be subject to him.

What's interesting is the last historical record that we have of any of the descendants of Esau was right before the Romans attacked Jerusalem. The descendants of Esau, some of them were allowed into Jerusalem and said that they would fight with the Jews against the Romans. That's the last historical record of the descendants of Esau. Never heard from again.

By the way, have you heard of any of the descendants of Jacob? Of Israel? Yes. There are millions of Jews around even now. One of the points we've made, one in every five Nobel Prize winners has been Jewish. But no descendants of Esau, at least recognized by that name, no descendants of Esau since 70 AD. So here's an interesting thing.

Rather than God saying, well, I think it's going to be this way and not that, or this is my best guess, it's an explicit statement, right? This is what's going to happen. Here's Deuteronomy 18, 20-22, but the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or which speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. You may say in your heart, how will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. If you have a prophet who makes mistakes, who just gives his best guess, that's not God's prophet.

This is talking about a God who absolutely knows the future. One of the points we made last week was God dwells in the eternal present. God is not in the position we are of having to forecast something out into the future. God dwells in the eternal present. As far as God's concerned, Christ's second coming and our sitting here today, or standing in my case, and Christ being on the cross and Adam being created in the garden are all right now. That's how God sees things. So trying to forecast something and hoping it comes out true to God, that's no big deal because to Him, He sees it now as it is. God dwells in the eternal present. One of the points we made is here is Jesus speaking in John chapter 8.

Before Abraham was born, not I existed. That would have been a different verb tense. I am. I am. And he used a particular form there in the Greek ego eimi. the particular form that it was the expression for God himself. It's what is in the Greek Old Testament where Moses asked God out of the burning bush, who should I say has sent you, has sent me rather. The Greek Old Testament response is ego, a me. I am, I am the one who dwells in the eternal present. God does not have to worry about knowing the future. All times are present for Him. He sees all times as present.

Okay, let's turn to page 10. On the top there we have point three, page 10. Open theism has moved the character of God in the direction of the gods of the ancient Near Eastern polytheism and of modern Mormonism. So based on taking these passages literally that have been taken classically as anthropomorphic, that is man-accommodated language, the character of the God of open theism moves the character of God in the direction of the gods of ancient Mediterranean and Eastern polytheism. in the following ways. Of course, we have this chart on page one.

But the point is this, the gods do not have perfect or full knowledge of the future. One of the examples we had was among the Greek and Roman gods, one of the gods would shroud himself in a cloud in order to carry out infidelity and hide the truth from his wife. This is the partial knowledge of polytheism. It's also the immorality of polytheism. The gods don't have perfect or full knowledge of the future or even the present. The next one, the gods do not have unchanging character and actions based upon that unchanging character. Jesus Christ is the same, what? Yesterday, today, forever, right? He's the same, right? He's not going to turn around and say, well, you know, I used to love you. That's not going to happen. Why? He's the same, right?

The same one that loved and gave and loved and gave and loved and gave, the scripture keeps telling us, is unchanging and will always be that loving God who gave. What does Christ get called throughout the book of Revelation? There's a particular title that He gets called. Do you recall? He is certainly the Son of God. But from early chapters into the later chapters, He gets called the Lamb. It's amazing.

We will have not a tear to shed in heaven. We will have no regrets. We will have no, you know, I wouldas and I shouldas. There will be none of that. Not a sorrow. Not a sigh. But somehow we will know that that one is the Lamb. The one who paid a price we could never pay. And who, by the way, isn't asking for us to pay it back. Right? He is forever the Lamb. He doesn't change. He won't suddenly come up, wake up one morning and say, well, I don't feel like the lamb anymore. God does not change. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, it does create a problem. Well, essentially, They go back with some kind of speculations, but they really don't address it in any thorough way.

You always will have that, because I've had that question posed to me, well, who made God? No, God is a self-existent, eternal being. Nobody had to make Him, and He doesn't change. And it's like the passage we'll have on the screen just before the start of the service, from everlasting in the past to everlasting in the future. You're a God. He is always the I am, always the one who is present. But yeah, that's a very good question. It begins to get into some sort of a hypothetical infinite series. Who's the God that made God that made God that made God, right? If that's the case.

The third point there, the gods do not have full sovereignty over the physical realm. There was one fellow who said, you know, God feels badly about the bad things that happen, but he just can't do anything about it. So that's the open theist view. The next one, the gods do not stand fully outside of time. God is subject to all the things in great part that we're subject to. God goes oops.

It's even been said that God likes surprises. I don't know how they conclude that. I'm not sure what chapter and verse that comes out of. But I think it's important when we look at these pieces, especially in the earlier part of the Old Testament, that have this figurative language that we remind ourselves, no, they're explicit statements from the Old Testament on into the New. Here's the book of James. There is no shadow of changing. No variation in God. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Let's look at the bottom of page 10 there, examining a few passages in question.

Genesis 2.19, Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. This is an accommodation of language to the human perspective. God is not clueless about what Adam was going to call him. God knew before he created Adam what Adam would call him.

Okay, let's look at page 11. In the bottom half there, we quote Genesis 22, 11 through 13. But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, here I am. And he said, do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me. What was the context of this passage?

Here is Abraham who is told to offer up his son Isaac, right? And so what does Abraham do? Abraham follows through exactly as the Lord, exactly as the Lord had told him to do. What do you think Abraham was thinking was supposed to happen? Would somehow deal with this, right? So Abraham prepares right up to the very minute to follow through on exactly what the Lord said. And then what took place that made the situation different? There were a couple of things. What was the first thing that happened that stopped Abraham from carrying out the sacrifice of his son Isaac? Yeah, first the angel of the Lord shows up and says, Stop! Whoa! Hold it! You know, blows the whistle. And puts a stop to this. And what's the next thing that happens?

Yes, here is this sacrifice caught in the thicket. Now, was the ram in the thicket a complete surprise to God, just sort of a happy accident, a haiku? No, it was not, was it? This entire thing was set up by God. The ram wasn't, oh, isn't that nice, you know, incidental thing, what a nice coincidence. No, this was something that God had planned initially. And the question is, did God even need to have Abraham do this in order for God to find out whether Abraham would follow through?

Why does it say, now I know? You see, quite often when we encounter these kinds of use of language, Quite often, what's happening is it is there, whether statement or question, to bring mankind into a place of understanding, not to reflect God's lack of understanding.

See the difference there? Now I know is not intended to mean, I have no idea what you were going to do. Oh, and by the way, I had no idea the ram was going to be there. No. the intended viewpoint. The point is, it has been made clear by what you have done. So here's something else that happens.

Abraham found out that if he continued on in faith, the Lord would take care of it. Isn't that what he believed anyway? He just didn't know the details. He trusted God He trusted God even though he didn't know the details. But God knew the details. Yes. Question. Yeah. Don't the Arabs believe that Ishmael was the sacrificial lamb? Yes. Yeah.

The Koran Has it rather than being a Isaac offered up that it's Ishmael right and So they've got that a part of the account different I should also say that that that is written in a different literary style It is not the same as same literary style as Genesis You know with just the switch names. It's written in a different literary style as well, but Yeah, it's just that's the way they came up with it I would suggest this to you.

When did Moses write the first five books of the Bible? About 1400 BC, right? When did, in round numbers, when did Muhammad write the Quran and the Hadith? Yeah, in round numbers around 600. So we're talking 2000 AD. We're talking 2,000 years later. Which account is closer in time to the original? Yeah, there's no comparison. It's closer in time by 2,000 years. Moses' writing is closer to the original event by 2,000 years. Which one is most likely to be historically accurate?

Essentially, Muhammad got his view of Judaism and Christianity by the Jews that were still remaining after the exile. Babylon, okay, and by a particular rather odd group of Christians called the Monarchians. That's how he got his view of Judaism and Christianity. And he wrote that we are the people of the book, included with the Jews.

But the reality is he wrote 2,000 years in round figures later than Moses. And Moses was therefore 2,000 years closer to the original event, and I would suggest to you far more likely to have recorded what actually took place. Yes? The other thing that seems to me is that history had to unfold so that Abraham could be the father of faith. And so even though God knew everything, You see, history has significance in scripture. History means something. God has even said that there's a direction of history.

Ephesians 1.9 and 10 basically says all things, that is all of history, is summed up in Christ. And that is the management of history that the Father has to sum up everything in history towards Christ. And what is the offering up of Isaac but a picture of the Father offering up His Son?

History, you're right, history had to unfold, history has to take place. We live in a time tunnel. And what we find is as we read through the Bible, there are places where the language is designed to accommodate our time perspective, the fact that we live in this time tunnel. But because the language is made to accommodate our time perspective and also our physical perspective, Does not mean that God is to be reduced in character Because of those accommodations so that we understand it better, right? Those are figures of speech and really important that we see it, but but you're correct God manages history God stands outside of history managing it as one who is not waiting to see how it turns out and but as one who dwells in the eternal present, all times are now. All times are now. Yeah? Yeah, one of the things, we addressed this a few different times, and I think there's even a write-up out of the Genesis series.

The angel of the Lord is, I think the way it's been stated, the pre-incarnate Christ. The angel of the Lord is an Old Testament expression. What you find is, you find the Lord and you find angels talked about after Christ is born, but you don't find the term the angel of the Lord showing up in the New Testament at all. It is Christ appearing as a person before he was born of Mary. Now, here's a question. How come Christ doesn't appear as the angel of the Lord now? Why doesn't He just keep on appearing as the angel of the Lord? You say what? He is the Lord. Okay. Doug, I think you said something. Okay. Alright. He is the Lord. Okay. Well, yeah, that was one change that took place. We have the Holy Spirit, and we have Scripture. I would suggest one other thing.

The angel of the Lord is a physical appearance of the Lord before he was born of Mary and had a human body. So he doesn't need to appear as a human. Why? Because he is one. He is fully God and fully man. We have direct access to the Lord. Something else, we have been identified with him, right? We have access, we have been identified with him.

There have been changes that have been made such that we don't need the angel of the Lord appearing as he once did. It was fitting for the time, but God has done some things, including Christ's own incarnation as a human being. He is now fully God and fully man. He doesn't need to appear as the angel of the Lord. He is the Lord, fully God and fully man. Okay.

Now let's take a look at page 12. Numbers 14, 11, and 12. This is one we brought up last time, but I want to make sure we cover it. Twice in Numbers 14, 11, and 12, and then as we quote below in Exodus 32, 9-14, twice the Lord spoke with Moses and He actually proposed In those passages, He proposed to destroy the Israelites and start over again with Moses. Twice.

I mean, is God going nuts or what's happening here? Why would He do that? Why would He say, I'm just going to destroy the Israelites and start over with Moses? Why wouldn't He do that? Okay, He is indeed the Creator. Good. Why else? Yeah, he made promises, right? And there were already prophecies.

Remember, we went through at the end of Genesis what was going to happen with each of the tribes. Is Moses in the lineage of Jesus? Moses was a Jew like Jesus, but he wasn't of the same tribe, right? And which tribe was going to be the one that Jesus was born of? Judah, the tribe of Judah. So Moses and Jesus are of the same lineage so far as being Jewish, but in fact the promise in the end of Genesis was that Judah would be the one through whom the Messiah would come.

So if he wipes out everybody but Moses and starts over again with Moses, what happens to that promise? It's not happening. So you start to see promises starting from Genesis all the way even to the very end of Genesis, promises that would have to be struck down. So did God propose these things to Moses because God was just plain exasperated and was actually thinking, nah, I better change my promise and change my plan? I see heads shaking slightly. What's that? We know it's not, but we don't know why. Yeah, so you look at this.

One is God proposed something twice to Moses. These two passages, number 14, Exodus 32. Twice he proposed to Moses, I'm going to wipe them all out and start over with you. Why would God do that, having made multiple promises, starting with Abraham? Yes.

Wasn't Moses the guy who wrote about the Abrahamic Covenant? Wasn't Moses the guy that recorded the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob? And the prophecies about the Messiah will come through Judah? Wasn't he the guy that wrote those? So what does Moses do?

He comes back to the Lord and he says, but Lord, you promised. And the Lord says, that's right, Moses. And so the Lord didn't propose these in order that God would somehow get off the hook and God could just wipe out the Israelites and start over with Moses. God proposed these for Moses' sake. And notice He didn't say it to the whole nation, but to Moses. He proposed these for Moses' sake so that Moses would come of his own recollection and understanding and say, but wait, Lord, you promised and you don't change. In Malachi, it says, I, the Lord, do not change.

Therefore, Israel is not wiped out. God makes a promise. He keeps it forever. Forever. He doesn't break it. That's why it's in here. It's not because God was thinking of changing the promise. It's not because he changed his mind. Just like the reason that he would call out to Adam and say, where are you? It's not because he didn't know. Same thing here. He didn't propose these to Moses because he wanted Moses to let him off the hook. It was for the sake of the human being, not because God was changing. Not because God forgot about His promise. Or because He was going to renege on it.

Right? God is faithful. God is ever faithful. He does not change. He knows everything. We can count on His promises. If He says He's going to conform you to the image of Son, guess what He's going to do? He's going to conform you to the image of His Son. That's exactly what he's going to do.

And he's not going to say, oops, well I tried. I had the best of intentions. He's not going to do that. He doesn't need to. Because he knows the future and the past just the same. God doesn't have to make his best guess. He dwells in the eternal present. He knows everything that will ever be, and everything that ever has been, and even all the possibilities. He knows it all. And that's a good thing.

Let's pray. We have run out of time. Lord, we do thank you for what you have made clear here. We thank you that you, in fact, do not change. That you, in fact, do know everything that is going on. that even when you, as we see here in the Old Testament passages, even when you propose something that seems to be contrary to your very promises, you do that for a purpose and you do it for the sake of human understanding and human recollection. And we just thank you for your faithfulness that we can count on everything that you promised and said that you will do. We thank you for that. We bring this time before you in Jesus name. Amen.