1 Timothy lesson 13

So we're moving on in 1 Timothy chapter 2. Last week we did verses 9 and 10, which had to do with the way women are to dress in the assembly, in the church. You could come up and teach. This is a fun class to teach. We also talked about the fact that, but rather a means of good works and as proper for women making a claim to godliness. So, as we talked about last week, godliness is the goal and whatever you do should glorify God. That's really what it comes down to. So today these verses get even more interesting.

Verse 11, a woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submission. A woman in silence let Did I write this down? A woman in silence let learn in all subjection. Oh, that's the interlinear, that's why it sounds weird. A woman in silence let learn in all subjection, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. So what's the issue here? What issue is Paul addressing? Yeah, order in the church. And not necessarily going after or picking on women. He just wants it orderly.

And like we talked about two weeks ago, the two words, there's chaos and what was the other word? I forgot it. Somebody's got to tell me. Chaos means disorder. Cosmos. Cosmos means to arrange in order. And the funny part of that was, like J. Vernon McGee would say, there are some women in the assembly that need cosmos. In other words, they need order. They look in the mirror and they need to get some order going there.

He's pretty bold about stuff like that. But so what we're dealing with is conduct in the assembly and the conduct of women. Have any of you guys ever been in a place where women try to dominate? So this has nothing to do with a believer's position in Christ, nothing, because we're all the same. We all have a standing in Christ. This has to do with order in the church, just so there isn't disorder. So the second question is, what is the major role of a woman in the church when it comes to doctrine?

If I were to say to Cheryl and Kathy and Donna, what's your role? What's your role in this class? What are you here to do? That's right, that's your role. Your role is to learn. Well, Mike, Courtney, what's your role here? Same thing, to learn. So the idea is, within the church, teaching is to learn, and he makes it pretty clear he doesn't want women to teach. So, yeah. Can women teach? If you do your homework, you'd be up to speed. Of course you do. He's the kind of guy that prays and says, Lord, would you do this now? So the idea here is that women should learn in silence And it's made clear that it's meaning by where women were disturbing the church service by asking their husbands questions.

So it sounds like it wasn't that they were raising their hand and saying, well, what about, they were talking to their husband. I mean, it happens here sometimes. There's a conversation going on, and Roger's up there trying to preach. You can hear this conversation and that conversation. Ever had that happen? Yeah, it happens all the time.

So that's what he's trying to eliminate so that we'd pay attention to one person at a time. If you look at 1 Corinthians 14, 34 and 35, somebody looked that up. First Corinthians 14 Churches They are not permitted to speak but are to subject themselves just as the law also says And then 35. Yes, if they desire to learn anything Let them ask their own husbands at home for it is improper for a woman to speak church pretty bold That's 1 Corinthians 14, 34 and 35.

Now, you know, it's a great verse, but you know what the problem with the verse is, and from a practical standpoint, usually the woman is ahead of the man. She's got more savvy than the guy does. In a lot of cases, that's true. In most cases, it's true. But isn't that usurping? It's an interesting problem because if Paula wants to keep order, he's also extending the order to the family.

The husband has a huge responsibility to be the leader of his family. And the leader, that leadership has to do with doctrine and understanding of God's word. He should be the one that does, in fact, have an answer when his wife or anybody asks him, his children, you know, or at least have the capacity and the resources to say, you know, I'll have to get back to you on that.

I'll go spend some time and learn. But he's the authority. You know, I have a friend, a close friend who's, he asked me this question quite often. He said, how do I lead? Because he's got a really dynamic wife. And I told him, I said, I think you lead, first of all, spiritually. You spend time with God's word and you learn and you grow. And more than likely, you're going to be out in front of her a little bit. And so you're going to become the source of questions. Well, what about this? And what about that?

When that begins to happen, you're leading because you're the one who knows. Well, these persons, all of them, have as much to do with the man as it has to do with them. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. You know, when we use the term staying ahead, It is a responsibility of a man to bring his wife alongside him and continue to move forward from the knowledge of faith. And if you don't, you end up with a contentious situation. And so it's on you, it's on me. I agree with that.

Children, well... Children, they observe. It's pretty structured. Sure. A lot. Yeah. You know, when we've done marriage counseling, this is one of the points that you really take a lot of time with. Because God structured the family a certain way. And he put the husband and the wife And the dad and the mom in roles that if, you know, it's like anything else, if you do it the Lord's way, it works.

And if you don't, it won't. Q Mentioned last week, position is not what's at question. Salvation is not what's at question. It's role. A Yeah, that's right. So, you know, When a man, if a man is serious about being a godly husband, I say this a lot, if we're counseling somebody and I tell the guy, right here in Ephesians it says, you're to love your wife as Christ loved the church, and what do you think about that? If he says no problem, they got a problem. You know? Because how do you love anybody that way? unless you're walking with the Lord and you as a husband are submissive to Him.

Well, you know, isn't that interesting that, yeah, it is. I mean, I got lucky with you. Check that one off. I've never heard Mike in confidence. I didn't snort that. No, you guys got beefed. No. We're iron shepherds iron. Yeah. So as the Lord put, and it's, you know, a young man that is told that from the word of God and realizes that he, ooh, how's that gonna work? That's somebody you can work with. That's somebody who's gonna go find out how this works. And he's gonna be a loving man and a leader like he should be, quietly. See, so, but it's cool how the Lord has set up the society, and of course, we're observing in our day that everything that God says is this is the way it ought to go, the world's against it.

I mean, something as stupid as I can be the gender I want to be? Really? Everything that's said in Genesis So you can just go in there and check them off. Well, the world doesn't go for that or that or that and down the list it goes. Well, are you surprised by that?

If Satan is the guy in charge, he's not going to agree with anything that God has to say. So what comes in and influences like a family and like relationships is what the world yells about rather than what God's word says. You know, I mean, I'm only gonna be submissive to the Lord Jesus if I trust him, right? Your wife is only gonna be submissive to you is if she trusts you because she knows you're submissive to the God of the universe. That's how it works. And so when you have a situation in the body of Christ, with godly men and women, you don't have a problem with something like this, I don't think.

Or shouldn't have, maybe is the way I ought to say it. So... And the interesting thing about the way the Lord has set this up for us as individual genders and relationships is that the man has to give an answer to the Lord. And... Mm-hmm. If you've ever contemplated that as a man, that is a heavy reality. Thank you. And moving down from that comes the order of the family. But you got to do that. Yeah, I agree.

And when you find a woman who recognizes that reality from the Word of God, then you can move forward with it. However, that doesn't happen very often. I would say that more than likely that two people get together and they don't understand what that dynamic is like. And if they are believers and they seek after the Lord, that will start to be put into place by the Spirit of God.

And it won't be antagonistic or, you know, it just falls in line because you're walking with the Lord, as best you know how, and so is she. And you're bringing the kids along, you recognize, well, if you don't have Christ, and you don't belong to him and you're not in him, you don't have, what's the barometer? The barometer is totally upside down. It's all about me. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure. And here's the most important aspect of all of this. As a believer, it's all done under grace.

Paul's not talking here about here's a law you've got to obey. He's saying here's how it works. Here's how God has instructed it to work. And the woman is to be submissive to the man, but the man better be submissive to the Lord in his work. Otherwise, it isn't going to happen.

You see that? Everybody is submissive to the Lord. As you grow spiritually, you're more submissive, but more solid at the same time. Okay? So, speaking of that, question three says, what do the words entire submission describe? What? Grace. Oh, that's a good answer. Is submission a mental attitude? I think it is. You have the mental attitude that accompanies receiving instruction because relationships, the way God has relationships set up, we have to learn it. Now think about this. What's the world tell you? It's all about me. So you got two selfers all about me in the same house. If that isn't a recipe for a war, I don't know what is.

So somebody in that relationship has got to be submissive. And it better start with the man. Because How else, an entire submission, think about what the word entire means. Submission is not to be grudgingly given. Notice there is no restriction on her desire to learn truth. It may be fairly said that she is to learn all the truth that she can. We're all submissive to the Lord.

Yeah. That order is the important thing. I was looking at some of that word submissiveness and departure. Departure. Wow, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah. We're just as responsible to that, to the Lord, as the woman is. And if the man does not depart and become apostate in his ways, then the woman can follow in the same way. Do you agree with that?

Well, maybe I would add something to it. My job as a shepherd is to do what? is to take care of the sheep, protect them, and feed them. But really, what am I doing? I'm pointing to the Lord. That's what I do. Go to Him. He's the one. So bring that down into the family. What does a husband really say to his wife? Go to Him. Go to him.

Same with the kids. Like we teach our kids this. I agree. And the order and we're like, he is your final door. Yeah. And if we're doing what we're supposed to do, then you'll respect that. Yeah. I think a shepherd's whole job is to point people to Christ. I really think that's the job. Now you may have to walk with them and be the part of the teaching that goes on and the discipline that goes on. And a lot of those things, but really, what am I doing? It's him. Not me, it's him. It's okay until you open up the word discipline. Because people do not like discipline.

Well, you know, get ready, because the Lord's got a whole train full of discipline. But it's all for purpose. All the discipline of God is that we might be partakers of His holiness. Imagine that. I don't, you know, I, you know, squirm sometimes when the Lord's disciplining me, but I'm old enough now, I realize every time, it's a good thing. You know, how, because I'm so bullheaded that if I wasn't disciplined, I'd never learn anything. Well, what's interesting about that is that all men suffer, but believers, there's a purpose in it. There's always a purpose. Oh, that's a great point, Donna.

They just suffer. They just suffer. Yeah, you know. And that's one of the ways that believers are identified, is how they suffer. That's an identity point. So-and-so has this terrible situation, but look how they deal with it. Or somebody in the world has the same situation. Well, I'll give you a good example.

We went last week to see Russ. I don't know if any of you have been where he is now, but he's at the end of the hall, and they leave the doors open, and across the hall from him is a man, and I'm not sure what's going on with him, but he's screaming all the time. I said, Russ, does that happen? He said, oh, yeah. He said, these guys are always yelling and screaming, unhappy, and something's wrong, and that's all he does. You know, I thought, Lord, you put Russ in a good spot.

I'll tell Nick that. Well, on the flip side, if you think of, like, children that aren't disciplined, you watch that play out, and you can tell that they're not happy. They need that. No, they're not. Well, I mean, all you got to do is, if you can find accurate accurate statistics is look at the suicide rate. These kids today at 16 years old, they've had every experience possible.

Is this it? This is it? Well, you know, if you don't know the Lord, I can definitely see, is this it? You know? Enhanced by probably drug use and all kinds of stuff, you know, but nothing satisfies them Well, we know that we can say that But it's difficult I think to communicate that to non-believers other than the way you live your life and other than the way you see your children and how they how they're doing and how they're Not that they don't have problems, but they're okay with them. They know because you taught them that trials are a normal thing for a believer and they have a specific purpose to conform you to Christ. They know that because you told them.

I like the last part of this that said that a woman should learn all that she can. all that she can, meaning that just because she can't speak in assembly or in the church doesn't mean she stops learning. There's a lot of ways that these verses can derail a woman and man, but in terms of intelligence, I'll just admit outright, I know that my wife is smarter than I am. However, I have a role to continue to teach her. So, it's not an intelligence factor. No, it's not. It's not. Yeah, I agree with that. It's a oneness factor. What's that? It's a oneness factor. Cool.

Yeah. I think that's very smart. Well, and usually, I mean, no two people, husband and wife, have the same gifts from God or the same talents. I mean, Don is so organized, and I'm like a hurricane. Let's just say complimentary. Yeah. That's a very good way. Yeah. It is complimentary. Sure. There are still roles. Yeah. And they're positive. Oh, God. Yeah.

I remember when we were at our niece's wedding, and at the reception, the guy's going around with a mic trying to find who had been married the longest, and her parents were married the longest. And so they stick the mic in Jack's face, and he said, what's the secret to a long marriage? His answer was finding the right woman. And everybody laughed and cheered. I thought to myself, I thought to myself, how long had I been married by then, 60 years or something? I thought, God made her the right one. She wasn't that way when they first got married, or neither was he. So that's kind of cool. Anyway.

Question four, are there specifics regarding where and when a woman, women are to be silent? So the whole purpose here is so that there would be order in the assembly. And for some reason, it seemed to be Paul's experience that if these principles weren't talked about that it would get disorderly in the local body of believers. So it doesn't forbid a woman to take an active part in the work of the church.

In her own sphere, under the limitation imposed on her by the contextual passage, the point is, Probably the best example I've ever met of a woman like that is Sue Anderson. She's amazing, what she does, but she never usurps her authority. You understand that? She never does that. And known her long enough now, she has such a heart for the Lord, and there's not anything she wouldn't do for Him in the role that God has called her. She knows her role, and she's perfectly happy with it. And she takes care of the finances of the church, everything that goes. She archives everything. I mean, the stuff that she does is amazing. But you will never see out of her, well, you need to do it this way. You never see that out of her. And I kid Wayne all the time, I said, I don't know why she's like that with you, because you're a slug.

But so, you see it worked out, and she's a good example. And she's very savvy, spiritually, and her sister, Patty. She, when we have a Bible study on Wednesday nights, she always has something really cool to say. She studies, she learns, yet she submits it too. You can see it. Okay. Yeah. Respect is earned, not demanded. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, when you think about it, Mike, the structure of a family, if you're going to be a husband and a father, you got to earn that. But on the other side of that coin is the Spirit of God is putting you through the paces so that you can handle the responsibility of being a husband and a father, or whatever other role that he has for you.

Here's the main crux, it's 12. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. So he's laid down some principles here. Is Paul saying a woman cannot teach or a woman can't be teachers over men? Which one? Women can't be teachers over men. How about How about the whole idea?

There's kind of a geeky, Greeky thing going on here. The correct understanding, Paul, is I don't allow a woman to teach, are dependent upon the tense of the Greek infinitive, the grammatical rule pertaining to it. In this case of infinitive, the Greek has a choice. between the present and aorist tense. So an infinitive can either be in the present tense, happening now, or aorist tense, fact. And he can use either one at will, since the time element of the tense of the infinitive is not considered. So present tense is right now, is not moving, or fact. So when the Greek desires to refer only to the fact of the action of an infinitive, he uses the aorist tense.

I want to say it's just fact. Should he use any other tense, he's going out of his way to add details, and the student must pay attention to his choice of tense. So the point being here is that what all is really saying is that I don't allow women to be teachers of men. That's what he's really saying. It isn't that they can't teach. They can't. Could a woman come up and teach Sunday school here? I don't think you'd let her.

But it usually has to do with Someone the man has stepped down or lost respect or to where a woman I've never seen it. I see it in marriages, but not in the church So you're saying the man fails yeah But she's just as bad as the man. So, you've got to have, we all have had spiritual authorities that we look to. It may be somebody we've listened to or read. Well, it's the same family situation. I mean, you've got spiritual fathers and children in the church.

Do you understand what I meant from the aorist and the present on an infinitive? Let me give you another example, three examples that may help us. If I say, you're a person that exercises faith, it would be aorist tense, and I would say, on occasion, you exercise faith. Well, if I said the present tense, I would say, you're a believer. See the difference between a person who exercise faith in a given time, as opposed to someone who's a believer. Another example.

Under the heiress, you're a person who renders service. While in the present tense, you would be a slave or a servant. That's your title. It's what you are. Or here's, I like this one. Amartyan heiress is to commit a sin. Amartyan present is to be a sinner. See the difference? So, the aorist tense here is to teach, but because it's present tense, it means teacher. So a woman is not allowed to be a teacher to men. Or the Methodists let the women teach, don't they? Well, the Charismatics, too.

Sure. Yeah. One of the funniest things that ever happened to me was right after Vern left, somebody who isn't here anymore came up to me and said, so you're looking for a new pastor? I said, yeah. And she said, I know somebody who just graduated from seminary. I said, really? Who are they? Yeah. Am I over? Oh, gee, I didn't realize. This is good. OK, let's close. We'll pick up with a couple of more points on question five and then go into six next time. So let's close.

Dear Father, How thankful we are how you have structured things so that we can rely upon them and feel comfortable in the roles that you've called us and the environment you have us in. And if I would pray for a submission, that would be to your son, the Lord Jesus at every turn. We thank you, we pray in your son's name. Amen.