Titus lesson 3 continued
Titus · Bob Eckel · Jul 9, 2023
Titus, No. 08
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926193157191

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

All right. So I presume today, based on where we've been before here, remember, I'm a pinch hitter here for a couple of months. We're going to begin with topic lesson number three today. So let's go ahead and read before we go ahead and look at this Titus one, five through nine. So would someone like to read, please? You got your Bible up? I do. I just had to find my mute button. Titus 5 through 9. Yeah, 5 through 9. Go ahead, please. Yep. Okay.

For this reason, I left you in Crete that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe not accused of dissipation or rebellion, For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast to the faithful word, which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. All right, thank you very much. So, issue or question number three, there are two synonyms designation of church leadership. Name them and discuss the difference.

So, we see one mentioned in Titus verse 5 and another one in verse 7. And then we're going to look in parallel to Acts 20 verses 17 and 28. So, let's J.D., you go ahead and read verse 5 again for us, please. For this reason I left you in Crete that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Okay, in verse 7. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain. Okay, so what words do we see there that describe church leadership in verses 5 and 7?

Well, we see bishop, steward, overseer, depending on the translation. Okay. How might those differ or how might they be similar? Let's just for a parallel section of scripture turn to Acts 20 verses 17 and 28. So someone here in the class maybe has contributed substantially already. Read verses 17 and 28 in Acts chapter 20.

He went to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church. And when they had come to him, he said to them, you yourselves know from the first day that I set foot in Asia, how I was with you the whole time, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials, which came upon me through the plots of the Jews. I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable and teaching you publicly and from house to house. All right, so in verses 5 of chapter 1 of Titus and verse 17 of Acts 20, the Greek term is presbyteros, which I think kind of outlines the idea of age and maturity but this is used for elders and an elder we're going to maybe discuss in more detail is certainly one put in a position of church leadership. All right and then in verse 7 of Titus 1 and in verse 28 of Acts 20 that term is episkopos and that really I think puts more emphasis on authority or supervision.

So What do you think about all these verses? And we're going to confuse this a little further in a second in 1 Peter 2, 25. But what are we making of these verses? Are these the same kind of oversight? I mean, basically the one that's in verse 7 can maybe better be interpreted as overseer. That's another term that Cheryl mentioned. Is this distinguishing these two types of elders, bishops, overseers, or is this one of the same and exchangeable? What do you think? It's interesting that they use two terms that don't exactly define the same thing, but there's a different emphasis.

And because of that, like In fact, 2028, the emphasis is more on supervision and authority. But I think an elder's got to really have all of the qualities, except I'm thinking back to my experience as an elder. Like when Al was alive, I think we looked to him as an elder elder. In other words, he had more time and grade and experience.

Presbyterus really applies age and maturity, but go ahead, keep your thought going. Yeah, so because, you know, you don't, how do I say this, you don't learn to be an elder, and then you become one. You become one, and that in and of itself is a learning process, although these requirements need to be in place ahead of time. But let's turn to the organized mainline Protestant Church, where we have, you know, bishops who oversee regions of the church, and ultimately we have pastors who may or may not be called elders. I mean, do you think Scripture distinguishes these two adequately, these various terms? Episcopos versus Presbyteros. Do you think those adequately distinguish these two roles, other than age and maturity for the first?

Well, the one thing that I've noticed, especially in Titus and in Timothy too, is that the Church is local. I can't find in Scripture the need for a bishop who's over a bunch of churches, and then somebody above him who's over a bunch of bishops, and then a final guy who's sort of the head of everything, or a council that determines the direction of a whole bunch of churches. Paul seems to think that, you know, he's unique in that his ministry was starting and establishing these churches, and Titus and Timothy had a different role to play in appointing elders and that kind of thing. But outside of that authority structure, I think it's all local.

Yeah, so in a sense, Titus and Timothy fit the qualifications of someone who oversees a region in church development, doesn't it? And perhaps he also oversees the doctrine, the theology being taught in those churches. But in fact, We don't see that well-grounded in terms of church structure, do we? But the elder we're going to describe in much more detail in the verses that follow. Other thoughts about this, everybody?

Let's turn to 1 Peter 2.25, and now we're going to give a little twist to this. And by the way, think back about somebody keeps the Bible open to Acts 20, 28. So everybody else from one person, whomever you select yourself, keep at least your thumb in Acts 20, 28. So someone read 1 Peter 2, 25. You were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the shepherd and guardian of your souls.

Interestingly enough, Shepard, which Greek term is that? Anybody want to address that in their inner linear here? Joanne, do you have that? Which Greek term that is? No, I think I would say it's Episkopos. It's Episkopos. And what's episkopos? Well, episkopos is one that really does not imply age or maturity, but in fact, and here the term is shepherd, isn't it? And what's it enacts 2028? What term is used for church leadership in Acts 2028? Elder? It's episcopos, overseer. Yes, same Greek term.

But here it's interpreted shepherd. And I think the implications here is if we think of shepherding, we think of the Lord Jesus Christ. But as we think of the local church, who's the shepherd of us here? Mike and Roger, right? So What we're looking at here is a bit of confusion in terms of the interpretation of church structure, but I think to a large extent these terms are somewhat interchangeable. I mean, we think of our pastors, our elders, as truly being our shepherds locally. The Lord Jesus Christ is ultimately the shepherd of each of our lives individually, is he not? And for the church. But yet, as we think of church structure, I don't think we can over-interpret these terms exactly in terms of the way the mainline church today orchestrates their church administration. Other thoughts?

One of the thoughts I had on that was, you know, the elders seem to be focused on the body and the education and the doctrine to the body. But then there's also multiple elders. You know, they can't say just to have one elder. And I think the elders keep each other accountable in doctrine, in all sorts of ways. Mike, what about that? That's right. Okay.

Tell us about your elder meetings, either with Helen Byrne or with now just Roger and you. I have an elder meeting with Roger every Tuesday at nine o'clock. a zoom meeting and then that half hour to an hour that we talked we discussed document first that we talked about the sermons that we've given and they're coming up and what do you think about this what do you think about that kind of thing or you know I think also would say well did you happen to read what so-and-so said about this And that was the same with Vern and with Hal. That's the same with Vern and with Hal. Although, when Hal was alive, I considered myself a junior, because the guy had such great wisdom.

You know, I just listened to what he had to say, but the idea is to get is to be dependent on the Spirit and track correctly. Rightly dividing the order of truth, right? That's what the goal is for each one of us as believers. Yeah, and that's the focus. That's where our focus is all the time. I mean, yeah, you know, we have other issues that we'll talk about, but primarily the issue every week is doctrinal.

Okay, and so that's not for the extent of your own lives, but also in terms of the body, right? And so that's where the shepherding aspects really comes in, isn't it? Yes, it does. And you're shepherding a flock here. The flock is manageable, isn't it, in terms of numbers? But anyway, but some churches might have seven or eight elders if it was a huge church, right? Sure. I think I'm going to opine here. It gets a little more complicated when it's a big church because you've got a lot of people to oversee. All right, good. I have a question. Go ahead. Yeah.

So can we agree that the word elder and overseer are synonymous terms? Did we land on that? Well, the term that's best described as overseer is episkopos, so that Greek term has been translated overseer in some versions. The other term, presbyteros, that one has not been interpreted as overseer. So, to some extent, I think we can get confused by overly interpreting the Greek in terms of those terms. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I think they're, I mean, in the context of Titus there, they're synonymous to the same person and group of people. Overseer is not plural. However, it doesn't, it doesn't imply that it's a singular role. And whereas elders is, is, is, is plural. So, um, but they both are synonymously talking about and over overlap in terms of those qualifications, which builds out. what we get in those qualifications from Titus and 1st and 2nd Timothy and so forth.

So that being said, I see them as synonymous in context, talking about the same group of men who have this function of writing what is in chaos. So organizing what is in chaos, doctrinally speaking, and then also shepherding and overseeing. And so one of the, where my question was going to come is a lot of times, even when you have a plurality of elders in a church, let's call it even a Bible church, you might have one elder that is set apart for teaching. They would call them the teaching elder, so to speak. Does that mean that the shepherding role is exempt from certain elders in a plurality? Have you seen that before or have heard of that in certain? No, but I think the way you stated that is perfectly clear. So let's turn to our elder in terms of that. I mean, we can only think about our own body of believers here. We can't extend beyond that, but JD's point you understood, right?

One who's more involved in the definite teaching role and someone who's less involved in that, maybe overseeing more of the doctrine. I think as we get into the qualification of elders, teaching is part of the qualification process. You've got to be able to communicate the word. Now, granted, some people are much better teachers than others. They have a skill, maybe. But what I've noticed is that certain elders appeal to different people. I've noticed that a lot.

And Roger and I will talk about that. Something will come up where one of us has to go talk to somebody. about an issue. No discipline, just talk about it. And we look at each other and like, oh yeah, you're better. Why don't you do it? Yeah, okay, I'll do it, kind of thing. It isn't...

Well, just the experience in teaching multiple years here, I've had the privilege, the Lord has given me that responsibility. We always know that the teacher learns more than the class. I mean, it's incredible how being in the Word to teach is really a responsibility. But just turning more recently to our James class, I mean the teaching skills of Andrew and Roger and Roy when he contributes are quite different. The message always gets across but the teaching styles are different and some people may prefer one versus another but as long as we're rightly dividing the word of truth, let the Bible speak to what it stands for, right? Well, in my experience with Miles Stanford, he said he had two jobs and he wasn't an elder. He was to feed the sheep and protect them. And I think shepherding is feeding process and protecting process.

Well, my communication with Myles was unfortunately very brief. The Lord took him home too early. But anyway, the one thing I remember about Myles is when I asked him, Myles, I was just a new believer at that point, growing in grace and truth. And I said, Myles, how do you pray? And you know what his answer was? That's a very good question, Bob. That was his answer. So that's Miles' style, right?

I mean, what he did, he cracked the door and he didn't crack it open much more, but enough to say, you know, there's no right way to pray. I mean, I think you pray by the Holy Spirit and the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. But anyway, he didn't even give me that.

All right, any other thoughts about these various roles of church leadership? I think we can conclude that the elder is going to be described in great detail coming up, but I think to distinguish the elder from an overseer, etc., is probably not necessary. And we have to look at biblical history and that the role of Paul was ultimately to appoint individuals to form churches. And beyond that, we have no definition about such a role going forward. Alright, let's turn to verse 6 and this is where the beat really begins here. I think this is really quite interesting.

So, what's the first qualification? Oh, 4? Question number 4, yeah. We're talking about verse 6, my bad. Okay, what's the first qualification in this verse and what does it mean? First qualification, so let's read verse 6. If any be blameless or above reproach is another translation, right?

What's that mean? How many around here are, well, let's turn to our elders. No, let's not go there. What's it mean to be blameless? I looked it up in the, well, whatever. It's unquestionable integrity, one definition. Unquestionable integrity. How do we measure that? But not perfect, because nobody's perfect.

Except Christ and God. Yeah. I have just this idea, none of the charges stick. You can't make anything stick to that guy. It doesn't mean that the charges don't, they come, but they don't stick, right? You sound like a judge or a lawyer. I'm like, you're rich. Okay.

Well, I guess the question comes up because, you know, this question really deals with being blameless or without reproach or above reproaches. a necessary initial qualification and what follows subsequently are all the issues that relate to being blameless. So maybe rather than spending a lot of time there, although I guess I'd like to turn to two separate verses.

Margaret, would you look at 1 Corinthians 1.8, please?

And Donna, how about 1 Timothy 3.10? Let's look at these two verses which deal with the same term.

1 Corinthians 1.8, don't you say? Yes, ma'am. All right.

Who will also confirm you to the end that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Now, how would we interpret blameless there? What do you think in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ? Without defining the day, is it the rapture, is it the second coming, or is it ultimately the eternal heaven and earth? When you stand before the Lord. I think when you stand before the Lord. And when Margaret stands before the Lord, what are your credentials?

Being justified by God. Justified by what, Russ? By God. Well, justified by faith, right? Yeah. Right. By grace you're saying through faith, not of ourselves. What I was meaning is God declares us righteous. Okay. Yeah. Remember always 2 Corinthians 5, 21, for he hath made him who knew no sin. to be made sin for us, then we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. So when we go blameless at the day of the Lord, however we want to go, I don't want to deal with that topic here right now, but you are standing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So this blameless interpreted here in Titus 1.6 Cannot mean that. I mean, blameless relates, I think.

Who said that? Was it J.D. Integrity? Cheryl, I think that's what you said. Cheryl, read that definition again. Just unquestionable integrity. One other thing, too, that I found, it says no charge of false doctrine or irregular behavior can be proved against them. OK. And again, the details of that are going to follow here.

First Timothy 3.10, Donna? And let these also first be proved, then let them use the office of the deacons being found blameless. Okay, now how are we interpreting blameless there?

Are we interpreting in terms of God's righteousness where we stand positionally and eternally or are we talking about what we're talking about in Titus, what Titus is proponent to, what do you think? Don't you think they're assuming that if you're in the body you're already blameless? I mean, no, you're blameless in the Lord. Conditionally, you're blameless. Conditionally, there could be issues that are brought up in Titus here that we're going to get to. Exactly, but I don't think it's talking about blameless in the Lord. I think it's talking about on the earth, you are blameless in the body.

Well, that's why I had you and Donna look up these verses, because I think the interpretation of blameless is different positionally than it is conditionally, right? Well, and Bob, under Zodiatis, what he says here, not merely unchargeable at all, or let's see, not merely unaccusable, but unaccused, free from any legal charge at all.

Legal? Yeah. Is that Old Testament legal? It almost sounds earthly. It really does. Yeah, earthly. I agree. Yeah. Other thoughts on this distinction here? I think Margaret's right in terms of this is all of these qualifications are conditional. They're not positional. That's right. But they start positionally. You can't a man is not going to be blameless if he isn't positioned right. In other words, you could not find a non-believer fit any of these qualifications. But you know, that's where Paul makes this very simple, for me to live is Christ, right? So that relates to the position translated into our condition.

And one of the guys I read said that you have to understand that This description of an elder doesn't mean that elders are super-Christians, you know, that they rise above the sheep that they are associated with. They're human beings. They have sin natures. It almost puts an emphasis on dependency, you know, that they recognize that You know, I'm if not more so as dependent as anybody that's involved in the flock that I'm in. Any other thoughts here? Blameless at the right hand of God is all the Lord Jesus Christ. That's right.

Blameless here relates to our walk and elders must walk blamelessly in terms of the condition of their life and how they're viewed by their fellow believers. I have a question for the class. Is this only a qualification for elders or is it? That's a good point, J.D. J.D., we're going to ignore that question. Let's go on. No, I think we're all called to this, but I think the elders are in a position to oversee the body, are they not? I mean, that's one of Roger and Mike's responsibilities. When there are people who are not blameless because of various issues, that needs to be brought to your attention. And when the Lord leads you, you need to deal with that, right? That's church discipline, is it not?

I think so. And the other thing it points up is that it's from the time that a person is saved to where he approaches qualification for this leadership position or overseer position is going to be a while. You don't do four years in seminary and then come out and somebody hangs an elder around your neck because you're not ready yet, you know. So J.D., in a sense, has gone on to question number five or item number five. Must elder candidates have these qualifications above all believers? We kind of skirted around that question a little bit, but I think we said. We said the elder must be identified based on this, but I don't think any of us are judging one another as to whether they're falling short here.

I mean, first of all, that's the work of the Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit. And then ultimately, if this unbelieving manifestation where people are blamed, that's really the elder's job if it's brought to their attention. Other thoughts about that? Well, you know, I was thinking about these big churches that have all these different elders and through the years you always hear of these terrible things that, you know, happen in these big churches where these elders have maybe abused their power or their position would be a better term.

And so I think, you know, what it shows is that, just as you've said, elders are not above reproach and they're not above Well, there's supposed to be above reproach in the scripture. Yeah, but they're, as Mike points out, they still have a sin nature. And, you know, until we're with the Lord, everybody has a sin nature. And anything is possible.

But I think it puts a bad light on elders. I think, you know, throughout, you know, we've all heard these terrible things that have happened in a lot of churches. And, you know, I think it puts a big burden on those elders. When we go on a rabbit trail here a second, I think there are two major themes of rightly dividing the word of truth.

I mean, we all know we're saved by grace through faith. I mean, let's establish that. But first is understanding positional truth. And that relates to the exchange life that follows. And the second thing, which I think is poorly taught, and I haven't been to many other churches, so I don't know, but I think we hold scripture to its truth in saying the sin nature never changes. And the idea that you're buffing up the old man is what many, I mean, many churches think that somehow that old nature goes away as you grow in grace and truth. So I think those two things really represent this to some extent here in terms of the entire church deity. I think we're all called to the same kind of life that the elder is called to. Except these men are called because it's exemplary that their life is about reproach. Mike? I did that note that I put in here of what Chester McAuley says. Yeah, I was going to read that, but you go ahead.

Before I say that, I don't see how a person who is aspiring to be an elder can be one if he's law-based, because the law makes sin stronger. And you can't be a legal beagle, so to speak, and fit the parameters of being an elder because If you're under a lost system, you're having a much greater struggle with sin than a person who's under grace. Well, this is the life of Romans 7, is it not? I mean, this is effectively what you're describing. Yeah.

And so to have an environment where what you're teaching and what you're trying to do yourself is law-based, and all it does is make sin worse, where sin abounded, grace abounded more, fine. But being under a law system means that sin is abounding in all aspects of the qualifications. And so, no wonder that the Word of God, in terms of understanding grace and position and condition, is not very well taught these days. I think that's why we gather here. Yeah, right. Because I think it's well thought. All right, why don't you go ahead and you brought it up. Why don't you read how Macaulay describes it? Yeah, I thought this was really good.

A quick look at the concordance shows that many elder deacon qualifications are expected of all believers. That's what J.D. said. Right. Does the listing of qualification mean that an elder must have these things in greater abundance than others? If so, he is to be the judge. I love that. Or is Paul simply saying that whoever is appointed as an elder must possess these qualities to a reasonable degree? The term reasonable is kind of a tricky one, isn't it? Yeah, it is. But see, that implies that the sin nature is still there, right?

But we're led by the Spirit. And it's a new life we live in Christ Jesus. It's not the old man being able to respond to law by getting better. Go ahead. Well, I think any position you're called to to serve in a church, you know, these apply. I watch the guys around here like Bill and Phil and others, you know, I mean, they're They make good decisions and they do really cool stuff because the Spirit of God leads them. So, do you want to read the next paragraph too or do you want me to? Go ahead.

Okay, so this is Macaulay also and I'm quoting him now. The word above reproach is anaglottos which literally means not called in. Interesting, not called in. It refers to one against whom no valid charge of misconduct can be judged. The quality must be understood in a relative sense. In a sense, duplicating what was just read. Proof of this is found in the use of this word to describe the believers.

Glorified state is found in 1 Corinthians 1.8 that Margaret LeBrun And Colossians 122, which we did not read, which is they're translated blameless and beyond reproach, respectively, Macaulay. So blameless beyond reproach is used identically for the same return.

All right. It's 942. Should we begin with question number six? Sure, let's do six and I'll pick up next week with seven if we complete six. All right, what does the husband of one wife mean? Okay, only one or one at a time. You have three minutes. Well, this should be easily answered within three minutes, I hope.

Yeah. So this does not apply to the Mormon Church, correct? Although I guess that habit is largely discontinued, I don't know. Margaret says no. By the way, just on the side, has anyone read Under the Banner of Heaven, ever? You want that whole body opened up.

So, interestingly enough, there is a modifier of husband in the original Greek text, and I went back just to check this out, and it's true. It's husband of one wife, not the husband of one wife. So how should we think about that? In fact, the best interpretation is a one wife husband. I mean, that's the literal translation.

At the time this was written, there were many cultures that had multiple wives. Well, look at biblical history. The Old Testament, right? Yeah. Multiple wives was pretty common. But I think what this is saying is one husband and one wife at a time. This is church-age stuff. Yeah. Well, and the question applies to someone who has been married more than once. Well, sure. Divorce. Yeah. I mean, Marla's been married. I'm her fourth husband. Yeah.

But Hal gave us no barriers to loving one another and getting married. And I've been privileged to have her for 28 years of my life. Actually, there was a controversy in this church when I was first invited to be an elder. A couple of men left the church because of that issue. Hal and Vern, to their credit, went and counseled with these guys and they ended up coming back. Well, talk about applying law to grace. There it is. So you're a one-wife man, right? Yeah, what Cal used to say, one at a time. One at a time. We'll talk privately a little later about that.

Okay. So, J.D., did we accomplish the addressing questions six here? No, you're good. I don't struggle with this one. But there are a lot of people that do. Yeah, I think we're all comfortable with that interpretation here. And we've been served well by my service here.

Next week, we're getting into a very interesting topic, and that's, can a candidate have kids that are out of control? Talk about a hot kettle, right? Like our new coffee maker, the coffee stays hot for hours and hours and hours. This is really going to be fun next week, which hopefully the spirit will lead us through that conversation.

I got a feeling that we may only be able to cover issue number seven next week. So let's close in prayer. J.D., would you close us, please? Yes. Father, I would thank you for the fact that you communicated those things that are important for those that would oversee the church, that would teach the church, that would shepherd us. And so, Father, we're thankful for those men that you have called into this role. And for those of us that are continuing to grow and learn, Father, we thank you that it is a growing intimacy with you that is a result of that knowledge and the union that we have. in you ultimately, and that these truths apply to each of us in the life of Christ. And so Lord, we just pray for the rest of this week that you would guide and direct us, and that we would depend upon you for our very life. And it's in your name we pray. Amen.