The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit lesson 41 cont.

All right, we are on lesson 41 of the Holy Spirit class, and I think we got down to question 3, and I think we just got to the question before Christ's incarnation, did He speak to man through the Spirit? And then we basically said yes, and then the write-up brings the point out in 1 Peter 3, 18 through 20. And I'll read that, and it's really the question, or what it comes from, is verse 19. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that he might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, in which also he went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark in which a few, that is eight persons, were brought safely through the water." So the question is, and the whole premise is, Christ made proclamation to the spirits now in prison.

So who and where are they? Who are the prisoners and where are they? Is this some kind of purgatory? And this is one that Rideout brings out in great detail about how this is misrepresented and how sad that is about how this has been misinterpreted. So does anybody have the, who are the spirits now in prison?

Nobody knows. Well, I was just going to say, I'm really glad Raito commented on this because, you know, it's one of those passages that, you know, you hear different interpretations and stuff, and I mean, they don't, it, yeah, it's not always very satisfying to the, you know, interpretation, but I think he had a really, really good handle on it and brought up some really important truth there. So, I mean, who were the spirits? I mean, you could look at verse 20, you know, who were once disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark. I mean, I think contextually there, it's the, it's everyone who didn't get on the boat, you know? So where's the prison? Where is, where is the prison? Where is the prison? Um, I'm going to go with Rido. I think he says, uh, wait, awaiting the great white throne judgment.

So where, um, I don't know, never been there. Never done that, been there, done that. Even after reading write-outs, I'm still a little bit just, I don't know if I truly understand all of it. The explanation, I'll go through his explanations, but I'm still kind of, he just kind of drops a few things and it's like, okay, And I don't know. Is anybody else kind of as confused?

You know, there was a thing known as Abraham's bosom. And there was also a part of that that were the unsaved. I mean, the unbelievers went. Because, was it Lazarus? Whoever was in the other part, the lower part, where he was suffering in pain, I mean, in fire and all that, anyway, reached out to the one in Abraham's bosom, you know.

Maybe that's what this is talking about. Yeah, you know, again, I just confess that, you know, even with Rideout's explanation, I'm still kind of like, I mean, it's not like a, yeah, I got it. So, that's why I was wondering if anybody else has a real confident response to this.

Well, I think what I understood at Rideout is that he's saying, you know, that passage is not saying that you know, somewhere between his death and resurrection, he went to hell and spoke to, you know, sometimes it's referred to, you know, people interpret that as demons, sometimes, you know, or the Nephilim, or, you know, and I think, I think what Rado is trying to make clear is that, that, that the Spirit was speaking through Noah in the days before the flood. to the spirits who are now, in Peter's time, in prison, awaiting judgment, and where that exactly is. I mean, I think the Old Testament word is like sheol, which basically means who knows where, you know, it's kind of the best, you know, but again, like Cheryl was saying, you know, that some kind of divided place of, you know, Abraham's bosom and torment or whatever, but...

But I just, I think that's really, you know, I don't think Peter's, I think I agree with Raido. I don't think Peter's saying that Jesus went somewhere in the, you know, the, you know, netherworld and spoke to spirits and said, no, he was, he spoke to them in times past. And Peter's using it out as an example to say that today he speaks through the Spirit in the same way that he did. I agree that Christ didn't go down to Hades or whatever and all this.

It seemed like just it wasn't as clear as I'd like to have it that you know It was talking about in Noah's days and those people and they ate that survived and everybody else So I understand that but it's you know, it's kind of it When it says that he you know, he spoke through Noah Well, I'm thinking about what about all the the prophets that were indwelt or you know and all this I think he spoke to all of those every bit as much as he did through Noah and And it's just this verse is kind of brought out and it's like, okay Yeah, and I'll get to another one that that I looked at that. I I think is more kind of Direct that Christ was speaking in olden times. So Mike is your mic on? Is your mic on? I Think that my mouth is hit on it when I For a hundred years, when Noah was building that ark, he was speaking, like a write-out says, every time he hammered a nail in, it spoke judgment to those around him who were what he describes as scoffers. And what's interesting is that there came a day when it started to rain.

There were only eight people who were going to be saved on the earth. The rest of them were all going to die. And so, I think it speaks of the bondage that everybody who is not a believer is in. And where do, when a non-believer in Noah's time or a non-believer today, when they die, where do they go? They don't go to hell yet because there hasn't been judgment. So it's a place where their spirits are held. Are they spoken to by Christ or are they spoken to They obviously were spoken to by Noah, but by the fact that he was building an ark.

And like we've been studying John on Wednesday night, it's amazing how much the Jewish nation rejected everything that Christ said. They weren't having any of it. And they wanted to stone him. And next hour, we're going to talk about the judgment. It awaits those who wouldn't listen.

Right. You know, yeah, it's just this, this is the one he speaks to him, you know, and it's like, well, you know, now we translate that to no, but I, why wasn't, you know, David who is a man after God's own heart who brought forth all this or you know Psalms and all the things that were brought out that You know, I think he was speaking in those times too. It's just this one He brought out and it was like that kind of the most questionable one to me, you know You kind of have to make that association and it's all that all the people who are non-believers and that he spoke through Noah So, right I think Peter's reason for using that example, because it is a kind of weird one, is that Peter focuses so much on the judgment that is to come. That's a major focus of Peter. There's going to be judgment and then it's coming.

And he's kind of putting that in there to show that the Lord doesn't bring about that judgment without without sharing the message of salvation through people by his spirit, I think is probably one of the reasons. As Mike said, a hundred years of testimony, you know, while he was building this, and scoffers and all that gave him obviously an opportunity to believe, and for a hundred years while he was building this, and they didn't, and that's why millions of people died, you know, during those days. just review Romans 2 and 3, and you know, the heathen, the self-righteous man and the religious man, you know, through those three men and the testimony of God and His creation and all the way to the Jews who had His word, there's the testimony. And they reject it. Oh yeah, totally reject it.

So, anyway, I want to kind of get some ideas before I started to blast through some of what Rideout has. It's kind of lengthy, and I didn't want to just read without getting some input. Any other input before I kind of get to what Rideout brings up? Yeah, I'm right there with Miles.

I haven't been there. Not quite sure exactly where. But I think the point of what I think it is about judgment, I think it is about comparing the relationship. And I think you're going to get into this. And so I don't want to step on that next. But there's a point here. And it's not about where. Obviously, I'm curious, too. And to be honest, I haven't probably put enough time in and to have a really opinionated perspective on it.

But I think these next questions are going to really get to the. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think that this was more like, you know, I guess maybe more than the question before Christ's incarnation, did he speak to man through the Spirit? You know, if that's the focus, I think there was lots of things.

This one, I think, is used because it directly says, you know, he made proclamation too. So it's a direct one rather than, but then it's really extrapolated to the same that happened throughout all of the history before Christ was incarnated. So let me go through this and I'll work right out brains.

It has been thought to refer to what was done by our Lord after his death, that he descended into the unseen world and there, quote, in spirit, in his disembodied state, preached the gospel to the spirits in prison. Apart from its grossness, such a thought is not only utterly foreign to the scriptures, but serves as an apparent basis for the doctrine of purgatory and future probation, which I need hardly say are most dangerous errors.

He then states, in Noah's days, There were scoffers, but Christ went in that day and preached by the Spirit, the same Spirit in and through whom He was quickened. He is present with us now just as He was present in Noah's day by the Holy Spirit who represents Him. Noah's case is cited as being at the close of a time of forebearing and just preceding the judgment. The world that then was answers to the world that now is, 2 Peter 2, 6 and 7. What happened in this day will finally happen with the world.

The men who heard Christ preaching through the Spirit in Noah are now in prison. They heard the preaching and rejected it, so it will be in a day soon coming. He then goes on and says, Christ went in the Spirit in the days of Noah and preached to the men whose spirits are now in prison. The Spirit was his representative and executor.

So that's how Rideout explains it. Again, it still is not as 100% clear as I'd like to have it. I did go, kind of another one, which is a little bit longer too, is from Matthew Henry. I just went to his commentary. For the explication of this, we may notice, the preacher, Christ Jesus, who has interested himself in the affairs of the Church and of the world ever since he was first promised to Adam, Genesis 3 and 15, he went not by a local motion, but by special operation, as God is frequently said to move. Genesis 11, Hosea quotes, "...he went and preached by his Spirit, striving with them and inspiring and enabling Enoch and Noah to plead with them and preach righteousness to them," as 2 Peter 2, 5. "...the hearers, because they were dead and disembodied when the Apostle speaks of them, therefore he properly calls them spirits now in prison." Not that they were in a prison when Christ Christ preached to them as the vulgar Latin translation and poppies expositors pretend. I love that one. The sin of these people, they were disobedient, that is, rebellious, unpersuadable and unbelieving. As the world signifies, this is their sin.

This, their sin, is aggravated from the patience and long-suffering of God, which once waited upon them for 120 years together, while Noah was preparing the ark, and by that, as well as by his preaching, giving them fair warning what was coming upon them.

The event of all, their bodies were drowned and their spirits cast into hell, which is called prison, Matthew 5, 25, 2 Peter 4, 2, 4 and 5. But Noah and his family who believed were obedient and saved in the ark. From the whole we learn that God takes exact notice of all that means and advantages that people in all ages have had for the salvation of their souls. It is put to the account of the old world that Christ offered them this help, sent His Spirit, gave them fair warning by Noah, and waited for a long time for their amendment.

Though the patience of God wait long upon sinners, yet it will expire at last. It is beneath the majesty of the great God always to wait upon man in vain. The spirits are disobedient sinners. As soon as they are out of their bodies, are committed to the prison of hell, whence there is no redemption. The way of most is neither the best, the wisest, nor the safest way to follow. Better to follow the eight in the ark than the eight million drowned by the flood and damned to hell. So, interesting for Matthew, yeah. I think it's an important distinction there to say that if Christ was preaching to human beings that had already died, why would he do that?

There's no option. I mean, what is he just telling them? Neaner, neaner, neaner. I think what he's talking about, the fact that non-believers, all men who are alive on the planet, are in fact in prison, and they're incarcerated by the sin nature, and they belong to the Adamic family, which is condemned. Well, I think, you know, again, kind of from the question, it's incarnate, the incarnate, but now I think it's the same thing.

We're preaching the message and they reject it. Yeah. Exactly the same as what they did. Noah was there and Enoch and that, and they preached this and they rejected it. That's, I think, the thing is he just did it through Noah's obedience and his work through that and what Peter brings out.

But I think it's, you know, it's prevalent throughout all of Reincarnate Christ where he worked and and message his message of you know again kind of in the what the Galatians 323 Everything pointed to the Christ and that the law was the Tudor But now that Christ has come there was no nothing like it was all pointing to Christ all of this was pointing to Christ and and his presence through temporary indwelling of the Holy Spirit and all that so I kind of made a connection here as we were talking and it kind of dawned on me finally. You think about the fact that Noah was a righteous man by faith who lived before law, right? And he lived in a time when judgment was imminent and yet Christ spoke through him about about the free offer of grace, right?

Christ spoke to them about this offer of grace. And I find it connected here with 2 Corinthians 5 verses 20 and 21. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were making an appeal through us. We beg you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God.

And I realize that's exactly what what Christ was doing through Noah before the flood. And here we live, all through the New Testament, you know, we live in a time where, you know, the judgment of the world is an imminent event. And just like Noah, you know, Christ is making this, it sounds a little bit, you know, desperate in those verses there, like there's this urgency to this appeal that Christ is making through us to those who are otherwise doomed to judgment. And anyway, that's just kind of like... Yeah. There's another one that I, you know, again, we're kind of before the incarnation. How do you speak to man?

The other one I looked up was first Corinthians 10, one through four. Well, I do not want you to be unaware of brethren that our fathers were all under a cloud and passed through the sea and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink for they were drinking from the spiritual rock, which followed them. And the rock was Christ. So, again, I'm looking at the direct quote that Christ was present and leading them and directing them.

And so, I think that's how, you know, through either the indwelling or through Noah and through all the people who were prophets, all them, I think he spoke through them. So, the thought is that Christ uses various instruments or people to speak through the indwelling of the Spirit. And then we'll get to the next question in question four.

In Psalm 22, 16, 40, 69, etc., who is speaking? So a couple of the references. Psalm 22, 1, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Psalm 22, 16, for dogs have surrounded me, a band of evildoers have encompassed me, they pierced my hands and my feet, I can count on my bones, they look, they stare at me, they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

Who do we think is speaking? First person. Any guess there? Yeah, yeah, it's directly, you know, talking about what, at that time, what would happen and transpire. And he's basically saying, through the Psalms, exactly what would happen to himself. So, again, this is again where I think speaking and, you know, through the incarnate, prior to the incarnation of Christ, we definitely see him speaking.

So, Rideout points out the entire psalm evidently refers to what Peter has called the sufferings of Christ and the glories that should follow. But you notice it is Christ Himself who is speaking all through that psalm, not merely the Spirit. And I so might go on quoting one psalm after another to show not mere inspiration, but if I may speak, impersonation. It is a wonderful subject to trace Christ speaking throughout the psalms by the Spirit.

So, again, going to the question, who is speaking in all these? Christ is speaking and telling of all the things that were going to happen. Other ones that I think of is Isaiah 53. You know, it's describing it, but who is motivating or directing Isaiah in this? How did he know what to say in Isaiah 53? It's the indwelling of the Spirit in Christ pointing him to what was going to happen.

So, in Isaiah 53, 4 and 5, "...surely our griefs he himself bore." and our sorrows he carried, yet we ourselves esteemed and stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was pierced through for our transgression, he was crushed for our iniquities. The chastening of our well-being fell upon him, and by his scourgings we were healed." So again, who is Isaiah?

How does he know this? He's speaking directly what was going to happen to Christ. So it's the indwelling spirit in Christ directing him in what was going to happen. Isaiah 53, 11, 12. As a result of the anguish of his soul, he will see it and be satisfied. By his knowledge, the righteous one, my servant, will justify the many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot him a portion with the great, and he will divide the booty with the strong, because he poured himself out He poured out himself to death and was numbered with the transgressors, yet he himself bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors.

So again, Isaiah is moving through the indwelling spirit. to direct him to say, because what did Isaiah know about this? He's saying this and he has no clue, I don't think, about what was going to transpire. So it was Christ speaking through Isaiah to us that what would happen. So, other thoughts? Or any other scriptures that you think that were speaking? Do you think that with Isaiah in particular. Do you think that people in the Jewish nation understood that it was the Spirit of God speaking through a man?

You know, they put a lot of emphasis on prophecy, but the Spirit of God had to speak through the person for it to be legitimate prophecy. Did they recognize that it was this person of the Holy Spirit who's actually doing the talking? killed a lot of the prophets, they didn't respect any of the prophets, and yet they were bringing the message of God to the people.

And what did they do? They rejected it. And again, when you look at this one in Isaiah, I'm curious as to what they thought at that point, because this is, what, four or five, I don't know how many, hundreds of years, a thousand years ahead of Christ's incarnation and his crucifixion. How did they take this and what did that mean to them?

I think they were savvy about the promises made in Genesis 3 that a Savior would come. You don't think J.D. just shook his head no. No, I don't think that they were savvy. I think that they had been spoiled with receiving the law and having that direct contact with Yahweh that they expected miraculous intervention from God to come before them and direct them like He had done in the past. And so moving on into the latter part of the Old Testament, You see the Spirit's work, but it's rejected because it's not this grander face-to-face with God where I cannot look upon Him and the glory.

It's like here's a man speaking as if he is God. And that is foreign, I think, to them, to the nation of Israel. Well, I also think, what were they looking for? They were looking for somebody who was going to boot these Romans out of here and become the king of Israel and lead them. Yeah, that's true. Here's a man who shows up, and he was born in Bethlehem. He was of humble beginnings, and he was not the one that was slaying the Romans.

And so they were looking for that. I don't think, well, probably Christ preached to them about his upcoming death, because even the apostles didn't understand what was going on. And they were spending 24-7 with him. And so I think, you know, I think afterwards, I think a lot of the apostles started going to this, obviously, you know, because they're quoted in some of the messages in the gospel and that, that reference back to this. So I think afterwards, it's like, oh, now I know what Isaiah was saying. And, you know, what do you mean the temple is going to be raised in three days, huh? Yeah, it took 70 years and they were pretty, as you said, not savvy, but then they picked it up.

So again, I think there's a lot of things, getting back to the question about who's speaking, I think there's so many references in all the Psalms and different prophets where it says that Christ was definitely speaking through the Spirit, through the prophet, describing himself, and what was to transpire. One of the things that stood out to me here, and you've already made this clear, but in terms of the way he says it, it is Christ, I say, who is speaking, but it is the Spirit who makes such a wonder possible.

So what that means is there's a relationship there. And he goes on to use the words dependence and obedience. Here you have the Messiah. you know, being dependent upon the Spirit in every one of these situations. He speaks, but he's dependent upon the Spirit, the third person, right? And we also know that he prays to the Father through the Spirit. And so, there's a dependency and an obedience in Christ's life that shows the way that the Holy Spirit makes our ability even to speak the words of Christ accurately.

It's this dependency and obedience that I thought was really interesting here that he mentions. I think we get into it a little bit in the next question. What is suggested by the expression the Spirit of Christ? This is the linking, I think, of Christ and the Spirit. So, if the Spirit is speaking in the Old Testament time, They're linked and we'll see this. I just had a thought that the Spirit's working is not only in the Old Testament times but now. Prophetic utterance or like maybe being a teacher.

But did he also in the Old Testament times which made them liable Did he open up their understanding? And when he did, did they reject what the understanding was? Or were they just... Did he not work on them? Yeah. You know? Well, obviously he didn't know his time. You know? They obviously had 120 years to figure this out. They rejected. Well, and Abraham wasn't around. There were the Jews, but... Yeah. I think it's rejection, not a not knowing. Yeah. I think it's more rejection.

Especially the Jews, because The verse we studied last week, what advantage did the Jews have? And the answer is they had every advantage because they had God's authority. They were the oracle holder. And that book from Good Seed, The Stranger on a Road to Emmaus, how the Lord Jesus opened up their understanding about the scriptures. So it seems like the Spirit of God does that work also. That's what holds them accountable. Right. This whole class. Convince and, you know, convict. Yeah. Well, and us too, right? Well, yeah. Yes. Each and every day. Yeah.

You know, another take home point is that when you think about the 8 million people who didn't get on the Ark, and it says they're all going to the Great White Throne of Judgment, and And it kind of brings to light every living human being today that I know who's a non-believer is in that same state. But I don't really want to offend them about Jesus. You know what I mean? It's like vitally important.

Yeah. You know, it's kind of an interesting thought now to think about it. We say, how many people die each day not knowing the Lord? Yeah. You know, we think eight million in a shot, you know, in 40 days of rain and flooding, you know, that probably happened in the last two months here on earth. You know, that's, that's an interesting thought that that many people have rejected Christ even today. So God knew they wouldn't get on the ark because it couldn't have held them all. Yeah. He built, he knew he built it, built it for what he could load. So, Let me see if I can get here on this one.

So, you know, basically what, you know, I said, the linking of the Spirit and Christ, I think, is a key. And it's referred to as the Spirit of Christ. And I think there are a lot of verses that, you know, that make this link. And some of them are the ones that John 14, 16, and 17.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever. That is the Spirit of Truth." Okay, and then in 1613, but when He, the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth, and He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak, and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify me, for He will take of mine, Christ, and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are mine, and therefore I said that He takes of mine and will disclose it to you.

So, who or what is truth? Yeah, the Lord Jesus has described us, He said, I'm the way, and the truth and the life. But now we're talking about the spirit of truth, which is, yeah, again, it's with the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in terms of what their individual persons sharing the same life. What I was trying to get at is, And you've got John 14, 6, Jesus said, I am the way, I am, so essence, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to me. So the link is He is the truth. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, That immediately, who is truth? I mean, the spirit of truth is, if he's truth, the spirit are equal.

And that those are the linking there, that they're, you know, kind of getting back to the spirit of Christ or the spirit of truth, they're one and the same. I mean, they're one entity. Again, the triune God, God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit, they're all equal, different. things that they do and accomplish, but they're all of one Godhead. I find it interesting that you have the Father and the Son who entered into an agreement, the eternal covenant.

But you see the Holy Spirit, He's not entering into agreements. No. He's just always trying to manifest God in Christ. That's his job. That's what he does. And it's not by agreement. It's just that's what he does. And so none of them act independently ever. Right. Well, that's the John 16, 13, 14. He's going to disclose everything of mine. He knows everything about me. He's the one who discloses it all. He's the one who convinces, convicts, indwells, does all. That's what his job is. You know, Christ was to come and take the sins upon himself, crucified, and that. But the Spirit is the one who actually is the power of the resurrection and all that.

So, you know, the other, for the law in John 1, 17-18, the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. Again, I just want to get the link between truth and spirit. They're linked together with the spirit of Christ. They are the same. And so, and then in 14, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory. Glories of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things and bring to remembrance all that I said to you." Again, there's just a perfect link between Christ and the Spirit. There's no separation between them.

And so, Rideout puts it this way, when we find the Holy Spirit so closely and intimately identified with that, with what our blessed Lord was to do and be when here upon earth, that he anticipated these things. His purpose was so to present it that not merely should a correct prediction be given, but the setting as well, in which all that occurred should be presented. Does it not show that all Does it not show that all God the Father's counsel centered about His Son, that all the Spirit's work was to exhibit Christ? What ineffable love between the divine persons of the Holy Trinity.

Again, it's the perfect length between the Spirit and Christ. There's no difference other than what their purpose and what they accomplish. You know, we've spent a year and a half studying what the Spirit's job is. Christ was the eternal covenant that he had with the Father. That was his job.

I think one of the things that... I'm sorry. Oh, no, go ahead. I think we're... We're out of time. Yeah, for sure. No, go ahead. Well, it's interesting because we think of the Holy Spirit as an operating system. Is that Christ's operating system? No, it's a person, okay. But it was love that that joined the persons of the Trinity, the love amongst themselves that allows us to understand what love is. And so Christ isn't ever obeying and depending upon someone he does not love. He's always operating out of love. Yeah, God is love.

And the triune is, they're all, you know, that's why, that's why, again, the Romans 8.30 section, you know, we have an, he has an eternal love for us. Those are his, he has an eternal love. There is absolutely nothing that can separate us from his love. And that, you know, the great comfort we have in whatever, again, my two things, sovereignty, he's in control, so whatever goes on, but he loves us. And as you said, they are love. God is love. He first loved us, you know, all that that comes out.

So, but we're about over unless there's any final comments. I have one more question. I think, Miles, are you up next? Okay, so I'll have one more. It shouldn't take us that long, so you should be ready for next week. Sounds good. Alrighty, let's close.

Heavenly Father, we thank you. We thank you again, just as we've discussed, the love that you have for us. And that's an eternal love that we can't be separated from. And again, you're sovereignly working each and every one of our lives to conform us, to transform us. into the image of your son, and we thank you for that, that you are doing that, and there's no malice in that in trials. It's only through love that you work in our lives, and we just rest in that fact, and give us great peace understanding that. So, we just pray as we move on this day that all they say and do will honor and glorify you, and just be with Mike as he gives the message at the next meeting, and we just thank you again for all these things in Jesus' name we pray. Amen.