The person and work of the Holy Spirit Lesson 2 question 6

Okay, we're on lesson two, and we have finished question five, and so we're going to delve into question six. The question is, did any of the Old Testament saints have life when they pleased God? What do you think? Maybe you don't think. Right out mentions that, or asks the question, did Enoch have life when he pleased God? Did Noah have life when he prepared the ark? Did Abraham have life when he left his kindred and country at the call of God? What do you think?

They all did. Yeah, what kind of life did they have? They weren't indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but they did have life. Okay. So, before that time, did they... Let's see. Before any of them pleased God, we would say that they didn't have life. They were physically alive and functioning, but they were not alive to God. Could we say it that way? Yes, I believe so. So now you're saying that they are now alive to God. What kind of life do they have? They have the same life you and I have? Answer, no, they don't. And Rydout makes a really interesting point here.

He says, we're speaking of the character, I'm sorry, we are not speaking of the character of this new life in Christ, but of the fact that they had life. In order to communicate with God, you must have life from Him to do it. And if you don't have it, there's no communication other than the fact that you can be aware that He exists and that He's powerful by His creation. But to have life to communicate with Him has to come from Him. Do you agree with that? No? Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting that God chose those individuals. Why did He choose them? I don't know, but God did choose them and He gave them life. Yeah, He did.

Can a man walk with God unless he has his life? I think the answer to that is no. Of course not. Can a man believe God and not live unto Him? Eventually the answer is no, he can't. He may try because all of these patriarchs, I mean these guys had life and you know, Noah and especially Abraham, you know, he wasn't exactly a stellar person, and he would believe God to a certain degree, and then he wouldn't, and then he'd believe God again, and then he wouldn't, and then God would demonstrate things to him, and it would, and eventually over the course of his life, 120 years or whatever it was, he became the man of faith, and he was, he is the man of faith, okay? Right on, go ahead. Can you ask the same question today? Can a man believe God and not live to him? I would think the answer would be, let's see, can a man believe God and not live to him? Yeah, a man can believe and not live to him.

Sure. It's his choice. But like you said, eventually, you're going to have to live to him. You will live to him, period. So describe a little bit. The difference between the life that, like Jim has, and that Abraham had. What's the difference? I think there's one unique difference about it, but what do you think? The indwelling Holy Spirit. Yeah. Indwelling Holy Spirit. Phil said that here. And what's so unique about the indwelling Holy Spirit? What makes that different? Would it be that he's always there?

He's always there, but look at Romans 8.2.

Romans 8.2 says there's a new principle of the spirit of life or a new law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

That's a new, entirely different kind of life. It's the life of the resurrected Christ. We share his very life, Donna. Donna wants to know if there's a difference of baptism by the Holy Spirit. In terms of the mechanics, I would say yes, because we've been placed into Christ, and the Spirit of Christ has been placed into us, so we're united to Him. You can't say that about Abraham. That's my lesson. What's that? That's my lesson. I know. So I think that, yeah, and we'll leave that for Jim to answer it now that you guys already have the answer. Birthday, Old Testament, some of them. Indwelt temporarily by the Holy Spirit. That's right, but they weren't placed into Christ. They were indwelt for a specific task. Like the guys, it must have been something else to watch these indwelt guys build that temple.

Imagine taking a 40-ton boulder out of the earth, shaping it, and putting it in place, and you don't have to pull it out and shave it. It's perfect every time. Imagine that. And that's because they were involved by the Spirit. I mean, they didn't have to measure twice and cut once. They measured and cut. It worked every time. So, one last part in this.

When our Lord spoke to Nicodemus of new birth, He was talking of what of what any spiritual mind would acknowledge, when it came to Ezekiel, we will see passages to which, no doubt, our Lord directly referred in that memorable interview. But who was it that realized what the fall meant? The separation from God and moral death resulting could doubt that a new life is needed. The point that he's making is when When the Lord Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, I think that was a surprise to him, when he said, unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he will not only not enter into the kingdom of God, but he won't even see it, won't even know it's there.

So, because Nicodemus' viewpoint was, well, I was born a Jew, I am a Jew, and I'm a Pharisee, so I'm in. No, you're not. And that's why it was a big surprise. So even under those circumstances, Nicodemus needed to have life. And Mike, would Nicodemus, like, that's still under law, is it not? I mean- Yes, he was. Right, so we're talking about new life, new birth, and yet, using a terminology under the dispensational law, right? Yeah, that's exactly right.

And the Lord Jesus wasn't talking to Nicodemus about being a member of the body of Christ. He was talking to Nicodemus about being in the kingdom of God. And that's the difference under a law system. So even to be in the kingdom of God, you must have life to be there. Life from God. But our life, the point is, and J.D. will spend a lot of time on it, is unique life. Resurrected life of Christ, okay?

So what does, question seven, what does Rideout say is the common blessing of all dispensations? Remember last week we talked about what a dispensation was? So I could change the word to stewardship. So I'll repeat the question. What does Rideout say about the common blessing of all stewardships? We just said it. By the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, you have to have life to be in any given stewardship. And he says we should thank God for the gift of life. The common blessing in all Stewardships is that you had to have life to be involved in them. The revelations may vary in the modes of dealing and change ever accomplishing the counsels of God who is perfect in wisdom, but the common life produced by the Spirit of God is in the whole family before Christ now and during the millennial age. So the common blessing is the fact that you have life. You can't be in any of these stewardships without life. A stewardship is a responsibility.

God isn't going to call on someone who does not have his life and give him a responsibility. He won't do that. But he calls on us to believe him in order that we may have life. Does that make sense? So his belief of responsibility, well, in the sense of having life, yeah, it's a requirement. But faith is the non-meritorious act of a human being.

So, back to pretty much the same question in verse 8, what's the difference in the life given in the Old Testament saints and the Christian life? In dwelling in the Holy Spirit. Yeah, that's interesting. The write-out says Old Testament saints were not in the church. They were not permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They were not linked to Christ in glory. And they probably were not consciously justified and in the light before God as we Christians are.

That's one of the great blessings of a Christian is that we are conscious of the fact that we've been justified. We're persuaded that we've been saved and that we're permanent in that position. But they did have life, for death is the opposite of life and surely they were not dead or under wrath. we would say that, or Rideout said that Christianity is more abundant life.

Good way to put it. And all will admit it is a full unfolding of the blessed purpose of God's love. But let us recognize a common family tie. Okay, so, JD, you ready? Ready to go? Ready to go, okay. JD's gonna pick up lesson three. So, y'all should have lesson three. Cool. All right, go. Good morning. Good morning. Yeah, so let's dive into question number one for lesson number three.

What is it to be baptized by the Spirit? First of all, maybe if you could we have physical baptism obviously have a spiritual baptism what is baptism what's the difference or i recess the baptism of the spirit mixes members of the body of christ okay uh... priority what is that isn't the I was doing a little reading on it a little while ago, and I came across something interesting. I mean, I've heard the illustration of baptism being like dyeing fabric, and this one I hadn't heard before, but in some of the Greek literature it's used of pickling vegetables. You baptize them, and you become identified, right?

You're a pickle, not a cucumber, right? That's a good one. I'll never forget that one now. You can't go back to being a cucumber, right? Yeah, that's funny. How do you separate the taste from the cucumber? You know, you can't. Yeah, I'll never eat a pickle and not think of baptism. Yeah, every time you eat a pickle from now on. Man, I don't remember the last time I dyed fabric, but that was pretty common around here. That's similar to dyeing a fabric. You can't bring the color back if you dye the fabric, so it's pretty much the same. You've changed it.

Yeah, you're exactly right. I think the key word behind those illustrations is identified with, right? You become identified with the source of what you're baptized into. So from a spiritual perspective, we become identified in the life of Christ permanently. So we're pickled, so to speak. It's a done deal. But what about the physical aspect? How does that differ from the spiritual?

The word baptizo means to be placed into, never to be taken out of. And so can you say To distinguish those two, physical baptism, I go down in the water and I come up, I get to dry off. I know the answer's out there. What is the purpose of physical baptism? It's a picture, I mean it's... Simple. It's an illustration of what happened when you were baptized into Christ. You were immersed and then Well, buried and resurrected. Death, burial, and resurrection. It's all pictured in there. Yeah. Think of the words... Sprinkling doesn't do it, does it? I think of the words ritual versus real in terms of the two. Yeah.

We're commanded to be physically baptized in the sense that we identify with who we are as a new believer, but at the moment of physical baptism, is that where you get identified with Christ? No. Everybody here said no. It's years later that you're physically baptized. So in 1 Corinthians 12, 13, it says, for by one spirit, we are all baptized into one body. Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, we have been all made to drink into one spirit.

So what, when it comes to the spiritual baptism, when does spiritual baptism take place? At salvation. Okay, we're going to talk about baptism and indwelling throughout this particular lesson. I had an acronym shared with me years ago, R-I-B-S, so RIBS, and it stands for Regeneration indwelling, baptism, and sealing.

And we're going to talk about the different ministries of the Holy Spirit, but I've always remembered that, that to your point, Jim, the moment we are regenerated by faith, which is to Mike's point, a non-meritorious work of the human mind, we're regenerated, we're indwelt, we're baptized.

That means we're identified. What are we identified with fully? Is it just the life of Christ? Based on that one verse I just read, 1 Corinthians 12, 13. Well, yeah, we're identified with with Christ's death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and sealing, but we're also identified with the body of Christ. That's right. You got it. So the church really is the body of Christ, right? So you're identified with Christ, but it's a body. It's a uniting.

It's not just an identification with Christ alone, it's his body, the body of Christ, which he is the head of. So in previous, in terms of the contrast of identification for former saints or former believers in the Old Testament under law, it's not a national identification. It's not like you're baptized into the United States of America or Canada. You're not identified with social distinctions like the Pharisees or the Sadducees. The Spirit really unites all its members into one living organism.

Do you agree with that? Yeah, definitely. How important is that truth for today? So we talk about this, we've talked about it a lot over the year. How important is it to identify yourself with a national organization or group of people outside of the body of Christ?

Minimal at best. And we did, we talked about that last week, how today there's so many believers that are caught up with the riffraff and the political nature of things. And whether it be, I'm an American, I'm a Canadian, I'm a you know, whatever, it becomes far less important when you understand this truth. Far less. And so minimum was a really good answer.

I used the illustration, you know, that's wrestling with the leaves at the top of the tree, but your foundation is who you really are. And the reason who you are is who you are as a believer is because of the spiritual baptism that was that you partook in, or that you experienced, that changes the game. That changes the conversation. Would you agree? I really do agree, because I think it's critical for not only young believers, but old believers to really understand what spiritual baptism is, what really happened. from the demonstration of going down in the water means I died.

Well, what did I get separated from? I got separated from the entire new creation. I went into Christ when he died and then buried and then when I came up out of the water, like Romans 6, 3 talks about, I came up in newness of life. In other words, if any man be in Christ, he's a new creation, an entirely new being as Christ was when he rose. And so, it's critical because as you grow as a believer, this separation from the old creation becomes more and more of a factor in your life because you begin to see that Everything that I'm from is not even my history anymore.

I've been severed from all of that, you know? I jokingly talk, my sister called me one time and said, well, I'm going to Ireland, do you wanna go with me? And I said, no, I'm not from Ireland anymore. She didn't understand what I was saying, you know? So. Well, just to maybe, agree with your sister, nobody really understands what you're saying. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I got a call drive from Iowa.

I think that's interesting to think about because, you know, we've been placed in, we have a new history now and that history is eternal and it is sourced in The body of Christ the person of Christ, right? So I was looking at Romans 8 16 and 17 It says the Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God That's interesting. So the first it says the Spirit himself It's capitalized testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

How does that play into this baptism thing? I And let me read 17. And if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, so that we may also be glorified with him. That's really where this whole connection makes sense. That's what the Spirit is doing in his role of baptizing us into the body of Christ. He not only does that permanently, but he testifies with our spirit. about the truth of our family, our true family now.

It's changed. Any thoughts there? I think it's a much greater distinction than if, like JD, if you said, well I want you to come live with my family and I'm going to adopt you. That's okay, that's nice. I want you to change your name to Macaulay, okay. But I'm still what I am when I show up at your house.

The difference is, is that being baptized into Christ totally changes my whole identity and my whole history. I now, like I said, I'm an, if any man be in Christ, he's a new creation. And that idea that all, everything old is passed away, behold everything is now new, new in kind and quality, is a concept that if I look in the mirror, I still look the same, you know, I still maybe react the same, I still function the same, but the word of God tells me, wait a minute, you're a new creation. So now I'm at a point where I have to take God at his word again. because I don't have any at least visible proof that there's a change, such a change that I'm now in Christ, that I'm new and completely different.

Question for you, Mike. Growing up in Catholicism, was this ever clear to you? Never. Well, they don't know about it. See, the most Catholicism will tell you is that if you get water baptized as an infant, you get to start from zero. In other words, you're born with, they look at the soul as like a glass bulb, and that all babies are born with smudge on the bulb, which is what we call original sin, is what they call it. We call it the sin nature. And that water baptism sort of wipes that away, and now as an infant you have, until you get to the age of reason, you have a nice clean soul bulb, you know, globe. But once you start realizing that you're a moral being and that you can sin and that kind of thing, so the issue becomes how much dirt you put on the bowl, you know, and how to get it washed off.

Well, there's no discussion. about this kind of thing, that baptism into Christ is just not anything that they would entertain. And look at the crucifix, they still have Christ on the cross, which means that from their perspective, his work isn't done. So there couldn't possibly be this baptism like we talk about it, you know, in their understanding. How much would you think, this is a question for the class, I have my own opinion there, How much have even evangelical denominations taken on that same perspective?

It's called works. You get baptized, but you better start getting busy. It's more like the cleaning up of the old man. You've got to straighten up the old man. You've got to make him do what he's supposed to do. It's an interchange. It is an interchange, but you've got to earn it. Your job as a Christian is to get the old man to act like a Christian. Right.

It's interesting that spiritual baptism, being the true baptism, the work of the Holy Spirit, is not reversible. Because now you're identified completely. You're united in a body that you will eternally be with. And you'll you're face to face with a person at some at the point where we leave this earthly life But even at the beginning of that spiritual baptism Everything changes in terms of who you are and where you're placed So it's a matter of citizenship in heaven at this point and those national and social distinctions are not the factor that that consumes our mind. It's the body of Christ, which we're a part of. I'll move to question number two. What is the difference between the baptism of the Spirit and being filled with the Spirit?

And if you come from any kind of charismatic background, I'd love to hear from you first. I do remember as a youth, you know, singing that song, anyone sing that song, Come Lord Jesus, like 500 times, you know, just bleeding to be filled with something, right, or something like that. I maybe had a marginally charismatic background. Yep.

And how many worship songs would you say that have the idea of the Holy Spirit falling on us, or filling us, or visiting? Maybe it's not those exact words, and I can't think of the one song. that really got me questioning some of this stuff. But yeah, so we're gonna contrast two things, baptism versus being filled. I'll read something to get us started.

John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days, hence, that's Acts 1.5. Right out says thus all during the the Lord's earthly ministry. The Spirit had not been given in the way here described So turning to Acts 2 we find the wondrous outpouring of the Holy Ghost the baptism promised and waited for So how many times does the Holy Spirit? How many times is he out poured on? you as a believer one time once So while we might hear those songs and they might move us in certain ways, or we might hear certain sermons that talk about the importance of the Holy Spirit, I think that from a biblical perspective, this is a one-time thing, right? Uh-oh, my halo's back. You must have got baptized by the Spirit or with the Spirit. Second blessing. Look, Nick's getting the halo over there too, I see. It's artificial in my case.

Well, baptism is permanent. You know, it always will be, and so we don't have to worry about that. But being filled is the same as being controlled by the Spirit, and it is to be repeated. Well, could we say that baptism is being a one-time event of salvation and control having to do with Romans 6 of yielding to the Spirit?

Yeah. What do you guys think? Alan, is being filled with a spirit condition on my yielding? Good question. I always equate it to fellowship. Really, with sin in our life, there's no fellowship. Yeah. And the spirit isn't, the spirit doesn't leave the spirit. Right.

But, um, at such point as we confess and agree with God about the sin it's restored. You know, the reason I brought that up is because like, if you go back to the previous chapter, we talked about stewardships. So if God gives me a stewardship, do I need to be filled with the spirit to carry out the stewardship that he gives me? I wouldn't think so. I think so too. I mean, Donna.

Something I've never considered before was the passage where he talked about the indwelling of the spirit in Saul, where he was not necessarily willing But the Lord, through the Spirit, used him to carry out his purposes. Right, Don is talking about that Saul was entwined by the Spirit to use Saul for his purposes. And Saul wasn't a willing participant. You know, he resisted it. Yeah, I mean, it's the same way with Jonah. You know, Jonah had wanted nothing to do with Nineveh, you know. My question was this, is that going on today? Is the Holy Spirit working in unbelievers to carry out God's purposes? Donna's question is, is that going on today? Is he working in unbelievers to carry out his purposes today?

Yeah, I would say all the time. He's not in Dwellingum, but yeah, he's at work. Right. That's part of the old things working together. That's right. God conforms us. Yeah, I think that's right. But I do think that if God calls you to be, well maybe put it this way, any spiritual gift that God gives every believer, and he gives every believer at least one, to that degree you have to be filled with the spirit to carry it out because usually it's something you couldn't do out of the flesh anyway, you know. And I'm not talking about just high-profile ones like pastor, teacher or something, but I mean, I think like when Alan and Debbie get up to sing, the spirit's at work in them, you know. I really think that's true. I also think parenthood is a spiritual gift. You have to be filled with the spirit to carry that one out.

Yeah, I was looking at Ephesians 5.18 talks about, it says, but be filled with the spirit. What do you think, what do you think that, how does that differ from baptism? Go ahead. It's not an ongoing thing. It's like the Holy Spirit dealt with believers in the Old Testament. He came in and he went out.

Being filled with the Spirit is more of an act of our obedience, our will, and it doesn't happen all the time. Any other thoughts? I don't know that such a... Well, let me ask a question and maybe it would help clarify. What does being filled with the spirit look like? In other words, You know, that verse says, don't be drunk with wine, whereas in excess, but be filled with the spirit.

And one other thing I'll add to the question that you're proposing. This is a present passive imperative. So we know it's a command. Right. It's a present thing, but it's passive. Passive, yeah. Sorry, listening to some of Vern's stuff, he talks about logical imperative, which is kind of his thing. It's like, because you are, sort of a sense, I don't know. Sure. So as passive, what is he saying? That's imperative that you let the spirit fill you? Is that the idea? That seems logical. Yep.

Well, in Ephesians, when you go down the rest of those verses, he gives a list of stuff that, you know, that you should, that part of this probably is speaking to yourself in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, and on he goes, you know. Submitting yourself one to another in the fear of the Lord, wives submit yourself to your own husbands, et cetera, et cetera, you know. The being filled with the spirit, it sounds like a submission to me. To let him do it, that's what the passive voice means. Yeah, it's an imperative. Go ahead. It's a submitting and the things listed below that in Ephesians are results of that filling.

Or that control of the spirit. Those aren't things you try to do. Those are things that happen because of having the Spirit's control in your life. Well, doesn't this all have to do with seeking God, looking to Christ for our instruction, for the filling? You have to be tuned into Christ to be doing that. You can't be doing everything in the flesh.

Yeah, and I don't remember if it was you, Jim, that said fellowship, but I think that's what's going on here, is the Holy Spirit is filling in a in a way that because you have been given a logical imperative to believe him in those circumstances that were mentioned prior to in this verse, you are in fellowship.

And that's what filling looks like. It's fellowship. Am I going to 945, Mike, or? Yeah. Yeah, I think so, because I think people are coming down to the church, like Allen and Debbie. Awesome. Well, we'll keep going on that. We'll pick up with question number three next week and go from there. Let's pray.

Father, how we thank you for the truths of your word, the truth of spiritual baptism, knowing that that's a one time thing and it results in dwelling in the ceiling, into the unique organism of the body of Christ, which we our children of. And so we're so thankful that these are the kinds of truths that we can celebrate in light of all of the distinctions of who people might associate themselves with in today's world. And we know that it was that way for years past as well. But we are in Christ, and so we just praise you for that truth and thank you for it. Most of all, for your love and your grace, in your name we pray, amen.