Lesson 51c
Romans 12:3-8 · Courtney Hemenway · Apr 19, 2020
Romans (2018-21), No. 108
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/49261918315902

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

All right, we are Romans Lesson 51, and if I think right, we got through Question 5. So I'm just gonna go back, let me do something, let me go back up here. I'm just gonna read the passage again since it's been kind of choppy and everything. So this is lesson 51, we're going through Romans chapter 12 and verses three through eight. So I'll just read those as a whole, and then we'll go back to question six. So Romans 12, beginning in verse three.

For through the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you, not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think, but to think as But to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one of another. Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly. If prophecy according to the proportion of his faith, if service in serving, or he who teaches in his teaching, or he who exhorts in his exhortation, he who gives with liberality, he who leads with diligence, he who shows mercy with cheerfulness.

So that's the section we're going at. We've looked at all the beginning verses. Now we're kind of getting into the gifts part of this. And so we looked at, in question five, verse six, about the gifts. What are they? And then now we're into question six. Does everyone have a gift? Remember, this is interactive. I need the interactive part. So does everyone have a gift? Yes. Yes. And so, if yes, how do we know everyone has a gift? Where does it say that? Verse 6.

Okay. And having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us. Okay. And remember, if you want to talk, you just unmute. So yeah, so since in the new American standard, it says, since we have gifts, so since we have, so that's the implied is that we have. And then I think it's even in the King James, what you read, Jim, I think is a more, more direct, I think having then gifts, it implies that by that everyone has a gift. So.

It includes all believers. There isn't a sense you who are more spiritual or you who are spiritually mature or there's no caveat or anything that says it limits it. It includes all believers. So no one's excluded. We also see this in the first Corinthians 12, 7, and we'll get to that a little bit later, about everybody has gifts. So if we all have gifts, are they all the same? No. No. No. So that's from verse six also. Since we have gifts that differ, so we're not all the same. We're not all Charlie Browns. We're not all feet. We're not all the same in the body concept. We're all not one portion of the body and we all have the same things.

So probably the better description is in the 1 Corinthians 12 passages. So if you look at 1 Corinthians 12, 1, now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. So again, as in this passage in Romans, it's implying or telling them You have gifts. And in the Corinthians, I don't want you to be unaware. So it's important that in Paul's epistles that he's saying that don't be unaware that you have gifts.

And I think about that. Do most of you think you have a gift? Silence. Do most of you, raise your hand or whatever. Do you think you have a gift? Do you think about that gift? I never have. You who are saying yes, what do you think about when you think about a gift? You think, hmm, I wake up in the morning and my gift is X, and I'm going to execute that. Is that how you do it? That won't happen. I don't think we recognize the gifts we have.

Other people recognize it, but I don't think we do Interesting though the first Corinthians 12, I do not want you to be unaware So I'm I'm curious he's saying do not be unaware or since we all have gifts or having gifts I I think it's interesting that it says, do not be unaware.

So when I read that, it's like, hmm, that's kind of an interesting thing. Am I aware of my gift or gifts? I would say that some people are like being preachers. Of course, you're aware that you have the gift of preaching. You may not be as eloquent as some other people, but you are aware of the ability at least.

You know, I think it would be more personal. It would be more self-focused and all that. But it was kind of interesting when he says, I don't want you to be unaware. So I think it's more of kind of a, that you have gifts, but you don't focus on it. I think it's more what Paul is getting at. I think, I think Paul was trying to, let people know that they do have gifts, but if we concentrate on the gift instead of the giver, there's a propensity of pride there, isn't there? Right, and that's, I guess, what I'm getting at, is that I think it's aware that you have gifts, but not to focus on them. Well, even by virtue of the fact that it's referred to as a gift, not an ability, says something about it. Yeah, a gift. A gift is not of us. Ability is of us. And I think it's what in the last question too, do we earn our gifts? No. It was in the last verses, it was according to the grace given.

So again, it's the gift, I think, but it was kind of, it was kind of interesting that, you know, since we have gifts, he's pointing it out. It says, you know, Corinthians don't be unaware of it, but I, and that's what I tried to get at Jim. And I think you said it right. It's, you know, you, you, it's to be aware that you have gifts, but not to focus on them because then it becomes selfish self centered, but just be aware that you, you do have gifts. And so I think that's what Paul's trying to get at.

And then if you get in first Corinthians 12, four through seven about the variety of gifts or the difference, you know, I said, the question was, are they all the same? I think it's really clear here in first Corinthians 12, four through seven. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit. And there are varieties of ministry, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God, who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given, though again, everyone, each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. So again, everyone has it and everyone has a gift and they're, they're different.

And I, you know, that it goes back to the, uh, it's a good thing that we don't have all the same gift. It gets back to the body concept. If we're all feet, how do we pick up if we don't have hands, if we don't have arms, legs, whatever. We all have different gifts, and it's all to edify the body. And it's all different.

And I look at this, it's kind of like the, why do we have plurality of elders? Why do we have plurality of elders? Why does it always, it's not, if you look in the church, it's never the elder, it's the elders. Why do we have that? Because of plurality of gifts. Morality of gifts. If we're all, if, yeah, I mean. It's with the elders too, because the elders each have ability that is a gift to them that bestowed by God for a certain purpose. You know, I think it's from being an elder.

The, the thing is that it, it gives balance. You know, I, I, I do the, uh, the equivalent on the board, you know, camp. And we're all different, and it's really good. The difference gives balance. And my strengths complement somebody else's weakness, and another person's strengths balance my weakness.

And that's why I think the plurality also, this variance of gifts, is to give balance and strength. Because an elder group or a board that are all the same, isn't gonna function very well. It's not gonna be balanced. And so I think that's why the gifts are also varied and different in different members because of it gives balance to the body. And I think it's important and that's the reason why we have this variety. I've got a question. Yeah.

Why is it, the word tells us that every person is gifted. But why is it in most churches, or in all churches I've ever been associated with, there's about a group of one, two, 3% of the people that ever do anything. So are all these other believers gifted, and do they just not know it, or do they sit on their hands, or what are they, why is it that way? It would seem to me that if God has, like a verse says, Seven says to each one of us a manifestation of the Spirit has been granted for the common good. There doesn't seem to me in my mind a lot of focus on the common good by everybody who's in the body.

How come? I think remember how are these allotted and what was it allotted based on? Based upon the grace that's been given? Yeah, let me go back up here. Let me go up to the top here. Remember what we did. So, in verse 3, and as God has allotted, what? What did it say in verse, the end of 3? As God has allotted to each, what? Hold on, man, let me get back to three.

A measure of faith. Right. So I think, you know, it's based on, you know, Mike, when you say, you know, and this is almost in every church body. There are several that are doing lots and others that don't do as much. They still have the gift. I think the idea is I think either based on faith or maturity and how you access that faith. And so it's given by God according to the measure of faith. And so, Where you are spiritually, I think, is part of that. So I think that's why some exercise maybe more of their gift in a body. But everybody has it. This doesn't exclude anything.

You know, I think, I forgot where, but in another place, well, 1 Corinthians 12 or 14, He says that some gifts are more spectacular and some gifts are kind of behind the scenes. You don't see everybody doing the same thing. Some are behind the scenes and some are not seen. Yeah, and I think that that's a good point, Jim, like, you know, mercy, we're going to, you know, mercy, you may be, you may not see that, you know, upfront, like, you know, teaching or, you know, the, you know, these, these other gifts, evangelists, or some of those, I think you're right, those may, those are more the public in front of, I think you're right, there's others that are manifesting in different ways that are not as visible to the body.

And again, I think it's exercised individually, and it's exercised given what the measure of faith that God has allotted you. And that really is the key, I think. And you may be doing a lot that's never seen. And I agree with you that, you know, there's a lot of things in the, you know, Mike, in the body that people do, but that's, you know, you have the gift of helps or a gift of mercy. You know, maybe those are the people who are more, you know, involved, that their gift is really helps and mercy. And those are more visible in the body, whereas some of the other ones may not be as visible, but they're still every bit as active. Would you say being a parent is a gift Being a parent is a gift? I don't think that's... Being a dad or a mom. I think that's a challenge. Seems though a couple of my kids are on here, I have to limit my comments.

No, I don't think that's per se a called out gift. Yeah, I would agree, Courtney. It's not a called-out gift, but I do think that there is a time when those gifts that you are given are expressed in your family more so than sometimes even the body of Christ. Because they are the body of Christ for you, and they're ultimately a gift to you as well. Sometimes it's it's a balance there right and you've got to use that gift and focus on the people God's given you and you don't know you don't know how that's gonna turn out and and you you want to love and You know be involved in the larger church body, but being a parent Challenges you to use your gifts ultimately, I mean that's Would you agree Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think that's, it's not a gift. I don't think parenting is a gift, a called out gift, but you, as you express, you may use your gift of mercy, of all sorts of different gifts may be applied as a parent.

And I think there's, you know, I think there's a difference because we, you know, it's clearly in scripture, there's a lot of things for parenting, you know, fathers do this, mothers do this, children obey your parents. and some of those things. So, you know, they're called out things that we are as believers and parents, you know, to do, but I don't really see it as a gifted position being a parent. Okay, Mike. One other question.

When he says in Corinthians that it's for the common good, does he mean just the body of Christ or does he mean the common community you live in? Probably both, but more focused on the body. Because I think the gifts are to edify the body. But I think in strengthening the body, we then become stronger ambassadors for Christ. As we edify the body, we manifest Christ to the world. So I think all those are, I think the focus is to be on the body. The gifts were I think given as, you know, is what we said there, you know, we've just gone through it's a body concept and then we're talking about the gifts.

So I think it's really the focus is mainly on The gifts were to edify and strengthen the body. A hand helps the feet. The feet help the, you know, and he gets into all that. So I think it's mainly focused on that. But the common good, I think, also includes that as we do that, we manifest Christ to the world. So it's a secondary thing, but I think the primary is for the body. The gifts were for the body. Yeah, I agree. Any others on that? Comments?

I had a thought about like Ethan and all, you know, there are people that, you know, just have this, what's the, people who would really seriously every day pray for Ethan and his family. There are others like me who see him, get an update, pray for him, you know, a little bit and, you know, trust God with what's happening and move on. But I know people that have this gift to pray, and boy, I'm enamored with what they do. They somehow enter into this intimacy with the Lord in which they lift people up and things really happen. Yeah, you know, and I totally understand that.

We had, in my family, I know from the other church we had been associated with, Bill, his, Bill's mom, and she was a prayer warrior. I mean, she would pray all the time. And, I mean, you felt that. I mean, you knew she was praying for you. And she was just, that was, her ability or gift, I don't, you know, of just praying for people.

And I, you know, that's, I pray all the time when we get these things through, but yeah, it's, you know, pray and then I go on and I'm doing my, others that I know that are exactly like that, just, man, they are prayer warriors. And that's just what they, they've been called to do. So, you know, I totally agree with that.

So, so, Interesting, I think I read it out of Newell's in the last question. Were the gifts only for the early church? What was that, was that Carol? Yeah, it's Newell. Right, and we covered this last week. It was interesting because Newell kind of implied that most of the gifts were for the early church. And it's like, what?

So this passage in Romans or the one in 1 Corinthians, none of them state or imply that the gifts were for the early church. So none of them have any kind of qualifier that says they're going to, you know, be only for the early church. Now when we get into some of the gifts I know Vern had taught and you know some of those gifts were for the early church and may not exist today. But there are gifts that are still to every believer that are still active in today's body. So, you know, again, some of the ones I don't know from Burns, I'd have to go back, but where he was talking about, you know, some of those show gifts were, were for the early church only. And that's where, I don't know where maybe, uh, uh, Newell's coming from where he's, he's kind of lumping lots of those in and that's what he meant where some of the early gifts, the show gifts. And he's not excluding all of them, but he's maybe those early ones, like Vern was saying, that some of them may have been only for the early church, but not. I think the early church was, at least until Cornelius's house was totally dominated with Jewish people.

And Jewish people, the word says it, that they demand a sign. And the Gentiles demand wisdom. And in the Old Testament, If you were a prophet, you better be able to demonstrate somehow through a sign that what you were teaching or what you were doing was verifiable by the Lord and there were sign gifts. And I think that's true in the early church until it became probably Gentile dominated and the sign gifts were not needed anymore. But you see them, You see Paul on his way to Rome, you know, where they spent some time on an island and he's, you know, he's healing people and snakes bite him and he doesn't die. And I mean, it's, you know, lots and lots of signs to people who are also, who aren't Jews. So I think it depends on, you know, the purpose. The sign gifts were primarily, I think, for the Jews to show that the Lord Jesus, to start with, And the apostles were, in fact, from God. And Nicodemus said that. You couldn't do the things you do if you weren't from God.

So so my question is do we need to re-invoke those for what is it Mississippi and Missouri the on their license plate? They show me state sure Do we need to get those back just for those people the sign gifts for? Whichever state that it's in the Mississippi or Missouri or something. It's the show me state, Missouri Do we need to re-invoke those just for the show me state?

I think the thing about some of those gifts is they were transitional, right? Like we were moving from one stage to another stage, one dispensation to another. And there were several gifts that were given to expedite that process, to enlighten that process. I don't know what you want to say about how they were fully expressed, but they were specifically for that transition, right?

Well, you know, it's kind of interesting though, you know, it's kind of, does it really call out that, you know, in specific scripture? Do we interpret that? You know, is there that these were, you know, only for that early church? That's the only thing that I kind of, you know, I wonder about, you know, and I understand and I agree with you, JD, I think there were a lot in Mike, that these were the show for, you know, starting the church and doing that.

So it is kind of you know we infer or imply based on the scriptures that these gifts are gone I Correct me if I'm wrong JD. I don't think there's anything that Specifically states that it says these gifts were only for the transition It does I'm trying to find it I probably won't be able to find it, but yeah, there is a verse that says that.

There's a passage somewhere that talks about they shall cease. That's right. You think it, Mike? That's right. And the time gifts are the ones that will cease. It seemed like time gifts ceased when the canon of Scripture was complete. That's right. Yeah, see, I guess the thing is, when did they cease? Because they will cease. When? Yeah. They will cease as the Scripture is completed. Right, right. Yeah. So was that in, when, when was the scripture completed? John, John on the Isle of Patmos. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, revelation was written. It was done. Yeah. So, but was it at the canonization of that or, you know, I guess it's it to me, I, yes, I agree that they, that lots of the sign gifts were gone.

The other, the other, which I always kind of wonder about too, is that, you know, and there's, there's, there's a song and it, it kind of reminds me every time I hear it. Yeah, true scripture a song But it's this the same power We have the same spirit in us that that they had past Pentecost And and the power is still there the same spirit the same energy you know, spirit that indwelt at Pentecost is the same spirit that indwells us now. That's exactly right. And so, you know, I guess if needed, those in Missouri or in the show me state, I mean, you know, these are just kind of pontifications that, you know, I wonder where it says these.

I agree that, you know, you don't see those sign gifts a lot or, you know, you don't see those transitional ones, but it, ceased when the canon you know the canonization or you know and Paul or John was done at Revelation is that it so it just you know kind of one of those things But the verse that Mike was referring to is 1st Corinthians 13 8 right Charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies they shall fail whether there be tongues They shall cease whether there be knowledge. It shall vanish away.

It wasn't only tongues. I Well, it mentions knowledge, uh, knowledge. Tongues will cease. Well, this is like I said, this is kind of a rabbit trail, but is it only tongues? Like, you know, is that yet that the tongues were, because he goes in that whole, that whole section is about tongues. You know, that, you know, if I could, well, it has to do with that thing is about sign gifts, which the, the, the gift of knowledge was assigned gift that you could, and prophecy was assigned gift because you were, you were in, in putting information that was not known before.

Yeah, well, again, I'll have to look at that. But did it say all those gifts cease? It says tongue cease. Now, I'll look at that later. But that's kind of a rabbit trail. Does it only say that? Or do all of those signed gifts say they cease? So anyway, that's kind of just a question that I have. I'll look at that a little bit more. So I guess the...

You know, if not all the gifts are evident today, but today if the Holy Spirit does not give gifts to believers, what then is the focus or power behind the various ministry or gifts? The unifying of the body. Well, if the Holy Spirit does not give the gifts to the believers, so what would it be? It would be man-driven. If it's not the Holy Spirit, the one exercising the gift, who would be the driving force behind a gift that is not driven by the Holy Spirit? Flesh. Flesh. Yeah.

The reason why I bring that up is sometimes I think people want, you know, I think there's some, you know, tests that you can take for, you know, what your spiritual gift is and your focus of trying to identify your gift and to really exercise your gift.

And, you know, again, this gets back to the whole question I had of, does this focus on you and me identifying my gift and, you know, doing the test that tells me I'm a whatever, you know, and, and that to me is where it becomes almost man driven. I'm forcing, the gift that maybe I want, and will that be a successful gift? No, it wouldn't be. But that's why, like I said, I know there's tests, I've seen them, tests to see what your gift is. And to me, that just has a self focus to it. It does.

And it's not spirit driven. So that was my point of this part of the question was, you know, I think when we try and focus on a gift and what it is, the focus is wrong and it's not spirit driven. You know, what's interesting about that conversation, though, is that I've had quite a few people in the course of conversation over the years say to me, oh, you know, so-and-so's got this gift, and I have no idea what my gift is. And I would bet that more believers have trouble understanding what their gift is than there are believers who say, oh yeah, I do have a gift. Not arrogantly, you know, I'm humbly, thank you, Lord. I'm able to minister to the body of Christ in some manner. You know, there's a woman at Holly Hills that I know has a gift of exhortation. She's amazing. Every time you talk to her, you walk away thinking, oh, am I glad I ran into her.

But more than not, I have conversations with people who say, I have no idea what my gift is. And why is that? Because I don't know what the answer is. I mean, do I look at them and say, well, You know, I've observed that you do X, or I know that it's to be focused on the body. It's not for me.

It's a gift. You are a conduit or a vehicle through which the Holy Spirit runs the body of Christ and ministers to it and allows it to function on a level beyond how things function on the earth, because we're heavenly. And everybody, because we are heavenly, we have to be equipped heavenly to function as the body of Christ. My attitude. I think my answer to that is don't worry about it. Again, be aware that you have a gift, but don't focus on trying to what your gift is. As we said, we're to be not unaware that we have a gift.

But I think it goes back to the 2 Peter 3.18, growing the grace and knowledge. of the Lord Jesus. As you do that, you will manifest that gift.

So, you know, the people who are worried about the gift or, you know, because I think, you know, can people have more than one gift? Sure. Yeah, I think so. I think also, you know, can those gifts change in time? I don't know about that. I think once you have it, I think you have it until you go home. Any other thoughts on that?

I was going to say in First Corinthians that we're studying, it seems like they were gifted to the nines. You know, they were very, very gifted, but then later they're reprimanded for being such like immature, foolish Christians. And earlier in my life, my wife and I were involved in charismatic churches and people who were dying, they didn't have enough faith, and it can lead to a lot of destruction of people's spiritual growth, and even sometimes maybe stumble so bad they just walk away from the church because You know, you say, well, I know we're supposed to pray for people to be healed. What do I do if I pray for a person and they die? And they say, step over that guy and go to the next guy and pray for him. So I'm just saying, there's a lot of error and billions and millions and zillions of dollars being made falsely on those gifts. You're right. I agree. Jim, you had something? Yeah.

Do you think there are gifts that are not delineated in the Bible, like helps, encouragement, stuff like that? Well, there are some of those, the gift of helps. There are those. But there are other ones that, yeah. Just what you were saying, I think, well, prayer. Is that a gift, to be a prayer warrior? Or encouragement? you know, like the behind the scenes gifts are so vague, you know, it's just, and everybody has a differing amount of abilities, you know, it's just, well, I think some abilities different. Yeah.

And some of those may be, you know, broad in that, you know, gift of exhortation, gift of helps, you know, get the mercy. Those can be very broad reaching, you know, how, how has that manifested? So it may not be specifically, but it's part of that gift. Yeah, I would agree with that, Courtney.

I think there's the umbrella, and then there are the specifics that fall underneath that umbrella. But I don't think scripture is lacking in referring to what the body has with regards to gifts. I think it's just there's large umbrellas that things fall under.

Yeah, you know, it'd be dangerous for me to say that there are gifts that are not called out, you know, that, you know, we say there's a gift of, you know, whatever, you know, car mechanic, you know, whatever. But that could be, you know, that's under mercy, could be under helps, could be under, you know, all sorts of the ones that are done. So, you know, again, reiterating what J.D. and I have been saying, I think it's a broad category that lots of these things fall under. Well, maybe that's the reason why some people are gifted in one area that you can't really define in the Bible what they are. Maybe there are multiple gifts, and it's centered in this one area.

Yeah, that's what, you know, my question kind of goes back to, you know, do you have the same gift or, you know, all the time? And, you know, I, I don't know, I'm still kind of on the, I'd have to research it a little bit more about, you know, if you have the gift of X, when you're 25 and a new believer, and then as you grow, you have a different gift that's manifest. Did that other one go away or, you know, I don't know, I guess that's kind of, I'm uncertain about that, whether once gifted, always gifted, or does the gift change based on the spirit manifesting that? Is it a dominant gift and a non-dominant gift?

I don't know how that goes. It's kind of a rabbit trail, but it's kind of an interesting thought. It is interesting. I think one thing to consider Going back to the different Gospels, we've got the Gospel of the Kingdom, and then we move to the Gospel of Substitution.

I think that those gifts function differently based on that purpose in time. And again, it goes back to that transitional period that we were talking about, but it ultimately I think is tied to that. I think it would be interesting as you think through it or look at it to consider those transitional periods and the messages that were being associated with the gifts at the time. But I guess, JD, it's more like today, in my lifetime. We're in the church age, the substitution, we're in that.

Does a gift, once gifted, is it there forever? I think so. And then one becomes dominant, one becomes less dominant. I would say the way the spirit of God works, is that if you have more than one gift, then the one will dominate given the circumstances he puts you in. You may be in a circumstance where gift one is really appropriate for this time, and five years from now, gift two is really appropriate for that time.

And he equips you, and you have to tie into that spiritual growth and conformity to Christ, because really what's going on here is the Spirit of God is conforming us to Christ, or put it another way, that the life of the Lord Jesus might be manifested through us. Well, all of these gifts are really the life of the Lord Jesus manifested through us by the power of the Holy Spirit. So as you grow, you may exhibit a gift that you couldn't have exhibited 10 years ago, But because you are more conformed, you do it. Growing in the grace and knowledge, the spiritual maturity. Sure.

That one gift becomes more manifest as you're more mature. And it may be that, the gift of helps or something when you're young and you're not going to be a teacher, you're not going to be an evangelist. You may not have that gift manifest if you're a young believer. But the gift of helps may be what you do when you're a young believer.

Or you may have certain wisdom about something because of not only you're gifted, but the experiences that the Lord puts you through that you're pretty savvy about that the guy sitting next to you would be savvy about something else, spiritually savvy, maybe is a way to say it. That's why people make career changes, because their gifts emphasize in some of the different areas.

Yeah. So I think that's probably it. The gifts are there, but they're manifest in different ways. One, given the situation, given the maturity, and I think it goes back to as allotted by God, the measure of faith, the exercise I give. Sure. So I think all of those. So I think, you know, that you have the gifts and they're manifest in different ways at different times. So. One one thought my buddy miles he's listening on this at the same time we were just talking and I think that the idea that you are given a gift the term that term gift implies that it can't be lost right like and Anytime there's a gift in Scripture it is permanent and That's just something to be considered with regards to some of this and I think Mike you're right like Sometimes those gifts are active in different you know, different times and in different situations, but, um, I don't think that the term gift implies any kind of change or a loss or anything except for purely a gift.

And that's based on, based on grace. So it's something we do. Yeah. So, yeah. So, and, and that's, you know, it's a gift. It, you know, it's, it's how you use that gift. The gift is given it's whether you use it or not and, but it's there. So, now the big question. This is the one that I was kind of interesting about, and different thoughts. I'll be curious to see what people think on question seven.

What is the gift of prophecy, and is it a gift today? So it says in verse six, since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly. If prophecy according to the proportion of his faith. So what is the gift of prophecy?

I want more than one answer on this. I want people to tell me, what is the gift of prophecy? And I'll ask a secondary question after you give me what the gift is, or what the gift of prophecy is. Come on, chickens. I would just say that any prophecy anyone might come up with today would not be anything added to what the scripture already provides. That's good. Any other thoughts?

Well, the apostles were all prophets, which meant that they were communicating information that had not previously been communicated to the world. You know, the apostle Paul, I mean, the information that he had to communicate was And not only was it new, but it was so drastic that it was really difficult. Every one of his epistles, he's talking about something entirely new that goes totally against everything that man's wisdom talks about. So in one sense, prophecy is the communication from God to man of something that's new, new information.

Now, since the scriptures have been completed now, is there anything new? I don't think so, Chris. You don't think there is, Jim? No, I don't. I think the Bible is complete. Yeah. So, is there a gift of prophecy today? No. According to that description. Yeah, according to that definition, you have to say no. Okay, any other thoughts? Okay, I'll give you another thought. I agree, no, is where I'm at. There is no gift of prophecy.

Well, there are those that try to define prophecy in the following way, that they have the capacity to have such an impression on somebody who's hearing the truth from that person that it causes a change in them. In other words, they're very forceful, I don't like the word forceful, or very persuasive when they talk about, like they can walk up to someone who never heard identification truths, lay them out for them, and they have an impression or something that really makes a difference in the hearer's life. Yeah. a definition of prophecy. I've heard that definition before. That to me is a definition of exhortation, not prophecy. Or teaching, agreed. So, any other thoughts before I expound?

Any other brave people who want to I was going to say, years ago, I used to be younger, and I went to these full gospel businessmen things, and they'd have speakers there, and the guy would start speaking in tongues, and he would just be going on and on about, you want to ride in my Honda kind of thing, and he just goes for like an hour, not an hour, but like 10 minutes, and in the thing he's going, Then he's talking, and also he goes, and basically, sorry, what that was, was he was saying, knock, knock, knock. And when he gave his interpretation, I mean, it was like crazy.

Well, I guess my other question and follow-up is, what is the gift of prophecy? Is it the same as a prophet? stunned silence jd my i mean yeah i'm just going to go out and say i mean a prophet has the gift of prophecy it sounds right is it the same again it goes it goes it goes back to the time and the expression of of when it was being used so yeah i mean there were times Maybe there are different expressions of it in relationship to the term prophet versus the gift of prophecy, but ultimately the ability that was gifted to that person is the same. Maybe their role was different in time. with regards to an Old Testament prophet versus the New Testament expression of the gift of prophecy. Maybe those are different in terms of how someone was referred to, but it's still the same thing, right?

That's my question. I think it is. Well, you could have, you could say, in the Old Testament, or you could say in the time of the apostles, that they were prophets. Just like Hebrews says that in times past, God spoke to us through the prophets. That's how He spoke to us. Could you say that there is, in fact, a prophet today? I don't think so, because we have the Word.

Right, and that's my question, is I think the distinction or differentiation between a prophet and prophecy, they're very different, I think. And so the gift of prophecy is different than being a prophet. I think a prophet has a gift of prophecy, But a prophet is different than prophecy, having the gift of prophecy. So does that change your mind as far as? What's the difference? If you have the gift of prophecy, what is it? Define it.

Well, that's what I will in a minute. But I think there's a difference between what we think is a prophet, which is what you called out, which is somebody who spoke forth and revealed God's word. It's interesting, I'm just setting it up for discussion of prophecy. Because this is the one that basically, when I was studying this, was the one that had the most interest or curiosity for me. And so, let me go to, I think I'm about to get the bell in my ear. One minute.

Yeah. So let me just go to our, I'll give you a couple definitions, and next week, I'll give you time to pontificate on this, whether it's here or not. So from Zodiates, the Greek word is profanity. is defined as a prophetic rank or work, the office of a prophet, or a gift of prophecy. In Romans 12, 6, it is classed with diaconia, ministry, or serving, and diascalia, teaching, as charisma, the result of God's grace or divine enablement to be exercised within the church. Okay? One more definition.

I'll get the definitions out, then you'll pontificate by next week. Also from Zodiates, it says in Romans 12, 6, by the use of the phrase, according to the proportion of faith, the apostle declares that a prophecy is required to agree with the accepted doctrines of the faith. Okay? Now let's go to the ultimate authority. Webster's Dictionary. I say that sarcastically, obviously. Webster's Dictionary about prophecy. To utter by or as if by divine inspiration. The second one, to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge.

There you go. There we go. That's the winner right there. So with those, think about it for next week. We'll start off with that. If prophecy is still today, either based on that definition or what we've discussed. And I'll give you a hint. I think Russ was on the trail that I think Newell kind of points to. So we will leave it at that. We will pray. And next week, think about prophecy, if it's still here, if it's still a gift. and what it means, so let's close.

Heavenly Father, we thank you, we thank you for this time, we thank you again, just the time, even electronically, gathering together and studying your word, we just thank you for the ability to do that, and you've given us the technology to do that, and we thank you for that, we thank you especially, and most importantly, that you have the indwelling Holy Spirit to convince us and convict us of the truths that are brought forth in your word. And you have left us with your word. And as we explore that and look into that, again, we're thankful for the scripture that we do have. And again, just the ability for the spirit to convince us of those truths that are in there. We again continue to thank you for just your constant care for us and in these crazy times We again just have the peace that the world cannot have and the rest that the world cannot have knowing that or that we have Knowing that you're in control of all this and that you have an eternal love for us that we can't be separated from even in these trying times you're using it for your purposes and your to ultimately glorify you, and we just thank you for being an instrument in this world just to reflect your son, the Christ image in this world. So we just thank you for the time we've had, and we just pray for the next meeting, that everything go technologically right, and honor and glorifying to you. We pray in Jesus' name, amen.