Lesson 42b

so we're working our way through lesson 42 and Romans chapter 9 verses 6-16 and we had pretty much finished up question 4 asking how important is the statement quote that the purpose of God according to election might stand is that an important statement. Yeah, it's a really important statement because it demonstrates the sovereignty of God. So question five says, how much freedom does God have in his election of people and events? All free, all the freedom. He can do whatever he wants, pick whatever he wants, orchestrate whatever event he wants.

Does he keep us somehow humans? have a choice to so we have to? Well that's the whole issue through this next group of verses is that how much the basic idea here is God's sovereignty and man's responsibility or you put it another way sovereign will and my will I have a will I'm not so sure it's free At least before I'm saved, it's not free, because I can't choose to carry out my choices when it comes to spiritual things. I have to depend and rely on somebody else, which I can choose to do. I can choose to believe or choose not to believe. That's how much freedom I have.

But the person who abides in the sin nature, a non-believer, his choices are only evil. Do you see that? He only gets to pick between one sin and another sin. He can't pick life. He has to learn by faith, to exercise his will by faith, to depend on God and the Savior to save him. He can't save himself, no matter how strong his will is.

So, these verses, in answering the question, the basic question was, if God made all these promises from Abraham, through Abraham, to all his descendants. And he's not, is he going to go back on his word eventually because now he's set them aside and the body of Christ has come in and now he's made some incredible, not only promises, but accomplished some unbelievable facts about them.

Does that mean that he just thought, well, the Jews have had enough time. We're just going to dump them. The answer is no, he's not. And so one of the questions here is, is God still going to be fair? I just, you know, it's another opportunity for me to set you up. I couldn't miss it. Bring in the cards. My wife has this sick sense of humor. She's the queen of the nasty greeting card. Everybody in the family says, oh yeah, this is from Donna. Actually, we were laughing like crazy this morning. They're kind of personal though.

So, how much freedom does God have in his election of people and events? From Kenneth Wiest, he says that what was done by God in his sovereign and freedom, the decisive word was spoken, he's talking about Jacob and Esau, spoken to their mother while they were yet unborn and had achieved neither good nor evil. So God chooses one of those two twins to do some certain things, and do the twins have any say in it?

No. None whatsoever? None whatsoever. They don't have to agree? No. So what if someone says, well, I've got a claim against God and His rights. What does he have a right to choose? They're futile. He can do what he wants. And, oh, by the way, he does. Here's the thing that people that criticize God about His choices don't understand.

It's that God is always trying to bless, and He's always eager to put man in a position where He can bless them. He always seeks favor. He never seeks to put you in a position where you are punished or anything like that. on Wednesday night in studying Genesis. Every chapter you see that, that God is always looking for ways to bless people and they're the ones that are not receiving it or not caring about it. But He's always working the circumstances so He can bless them. And that's His character and that's the way He is. So from that perspective and the fact that He's God, Only someone wrapped up in the sin nature would look at God and want to challenge Him about what His choices are.

It's like saying, I have a gift of salvation for you and your answer is, no thank you. We look at that and say, you're an idiot, but no thank you. I don't need that. That's proven by one of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. He says through them, why would you die? He didn't want people to die. No, he didn't.

He does look for every opportunity to bless us. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And if you start with that premise, then you see that everything he does is designed to bless his creation. But you don't want to misapprehend what He's doing and His purposes. He wishes to show that God's promises have not broken down. That the promises He's made to Israel, He's going to keep them.

He's going to keep them. And through all the children of Abraham, there's lots of them, right? Remember, He took Abram outside and said, check the stars, and if you can count them, That's how many. Or go to the beach and count the grains of sand. That's how many. Are all of those people saved? All the descendants of Abraham? No, they're not. Why not? See, that's where their choice comes in.

And it's interesting because in the Gospels you see this Portrayed hugely and and where you really see it is with like our friend Nicodemus, right? Nicodemus sneaks in at night to talk to the Lord Jesus and he and he starts Typical he gives them a little smoke Hey, you're terrific. And I know you must be from God because you couldn't do the things you do if you weren't Start off with a compliment. It's good move And the Lord Jesus says back to him Unless you be born again, you'll never even see the kingdom of God. And he's going, what? What was Nicodemus' mindset? I'm a Jew. I'm going to heaven. Have I got the kingdom? Am I in? Absolutely. He thought he was in.

And the Lord Jesus says, wait a minute. Unless what? Unless you're born again. And then he says to him, unless you're born again of water and the Spirit, you won't enter into the kingdom. You can't see it and you won't enter into it. That's a huge surprise to him because he's an offspring of Abraham, right? They think they're in. It's just like Catholicism thinks that if you can do water baptism, you're in. In what? The trouble is that the other part of that is that you can always lose it.

So Abraham, maybe ask this, how many of Abraham's descendants have a part in what's going to happen with Christ, the fulfillment in Christ? You're talking about spiritual descendants or physical? I'm not answering that because then it gives away the question. So all the physical descendants of Abraham aren't necessarily involved in what's going to happen with Christ, right? Even though their sins will be paid for. But the spiritual sons of Abraham will be, or are, put it that way.

Do you think that without the cross that God could have saved anybody? What do you think? So was that a rule or a principle that God put on himself? You ever think about that? That God has this whole plan together and it includes the crucifixion of Christ. What if he didn't crucify? What if there was no death of Christ, does anybody get saved?

No. He can't just arbitrarily say, I'll pick you, but not you, and I'll pick you, and you, he can't do that? Tell me why not? He's bound by his own laws that he makes. So he makes the rules and he says, I'm sticking with my rules? Yeah. The wages of sin is death. What's that? The wages of sin is death. One of his principles, right? But why couldn't he just have set a whole other group of rules and said, well, we won't do the wages of sin as deaths. You don't have to die. Just, you know, hang around for a while. Do the best you can and we're good.

Why wouldn't that work? Because he's holy. He's holy, which means what? What does it mean that God is holy? Set apart. He's set apart, but he's holy unto what? Unto himself. and himself, he's righteous and he's good. So why death? Why can't he say, well, you know, do the best you can and you know, I'll put you in a category of what we call the saved. You get to go to heaven and sit on a cloud. Why death? Why death? Why does it have to be death? Because death separates.

That's exactly right. It separates what from what? Your body and your spirit. He said to Adam, the soul that sins, it will surely die. So there's an initial separation when the soul does sin, separated from God, right? Because it sinned. Now God has taken it upon himself to reconcile him back, somehow. Well, he's got to follow his own principle, which is he's going to do it through death. But what does death do? The death of the cross separated God from the entire sinful creation, which gives him unlimited rights to choose. Do you see that? It gives him the right to choose. He can show mercy where he wants. or where he doesn't have to. The fact that he saves anybody is astounding to me. I have yet to meet somebody who deserved it. Even my wife of 40 years.

Courtney might think he does. You mentioned, does God operate under His own laws. Principles. He sure does. It's a curious statement, right? Because we talk about God is bound by His character, right? He is who He is. All the attributes that He is makes up that boundary of what He will and will not do. I'm just wondering if he, we don't think of God as being under law. No. Right? No. He's bound by his person, who he is.

And out of his character comes the law that we, well, mankind operates according to. We're talking about principles at this point. But yeah, it's a curious thought to think about God being bound by his own principles. I suppose that's because of his character, right?

It's not as much maybe under, it's just kind of the operating system. That's his OS. That's his operating system. That's how he functions. So it's not under a lot, but he functions according to his attributes. The first attribute of God that we have to put in place is that he's sovereign. He gets to do what he wants. According to his person. According to what his person is. And he does.

And when you realize that the character of who he is is that he can be effective in what he's decided to do, and his creatures, which we are, even though he built us with will and emotions and intellect and environment and everything that goes with it, we cannot, once lost, find our way back.

We can't will our way back. We can't work our way back. There's no legal process. There's no process of effort that we can get back into His good graces because we have sinned. And not only have we committed a sin, but we are sinned because we're in it.

So if God doesn't show mercy in His sovereignty, And he puts himself under his own principles. Do you understand what I mean by that? He says, I'm sovereign and here's how I'm going to operate. I'm going to bless those that I can. I'm going to take care of the sin issue because it was an offense against me. But I'm going to send out my principles to you. And once he does that, it's up to you to accept them or not. Yes, I'm trying to think.

Could he have done it a different way? Could he have just said, your sins are gone? Well, you know, it's interesting in the Old Testament, rather than say your sins are gone, a couple of times he says, why don't we just wipe all these dogs out and we'll start with a new group of dogs. That wouldn't be just, right? It wouldn't be with his character, see?

And that's what Moses says to him. Hey, you're not the God I know if you do that. I was ratcheting it back to God's character. He wants to share his glory. And with the angels, he can share a part of his glory, but the way he's done it with man, he's able to actually bring us into his presence by being in Christ and share his glory on a level that no other created. he's been able to do. Which is, I think, what he desires. That's part of his character, right? Sure. To share his glory? What he wants.

Yeah, I guess, kind of my point is why he can make it however he wanted. And that's, I think, the amazing part is, and where God is love, is that he could have done it a different way. Because he had the covenant with the Son before anybody was created. So, he planned it that way. He could have planned it a different way.

But I think to demonstrate his love, he allowed sin to come in, and he allowed his son to come and be crucified. And you wouldn't say that he's the cause of sin, even though he knew it? No, he knew it. But that's what I say, even before a human was created, he knew that there would be sin. He knew, because of the covenant, that he'd have to give his son.

That's what I think. demonstrates love beyond anything else. Because he could have done it any other way. But this is the way he chose to do it. I think that's the key point with God and humanity is that he loves us. And he wishes that none should perish. I mean, accost him his son. And so the fact that he loved Israel, he loves those members of the body of the body of Christ. He loves every one of his creatures. Every one of them. And he built them so that they could be responsive to the fact that he loved them. They could love back.

But angels don't love back, do they? Well, the ones in the Christian bookstores do, but the real ones don't. That's funny. What do they do? Serve. And worship. Yeah, that's what they do. There might be some love in that. Well, the fact that he didn't give the angels the opportunity to believe in the person and work of Christ is, you know, I think once they made their choice, You know, they're a lot. That's the problem with being really smart.

Okay, so I think we've established now that God is sovereign and His character is such that He does things because He's a loving God and because His desire is to bless and to manifest His glory through His creatures. Now, my sin nature would immediately say, well, how about some of my glory? Why do we need your glory? Who are you? But we don't understand that because the very essence of God is love, manifesting His glory is the outflowing of His love. That's what it is. And we get to live in it. It's really cool. Now, question six.

Did God really hate Esau? You know what the verse is, right? He said in verse 12, well let's start in 11, for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that the purpose, God's purpose according to His choice would stand not because of works but because of Him who calls. And He said to her, the older will serve the younger. Just as it is written, Jacob I've loved and Esau I hated. Would you really hate Esau?

I was thinking this along the line of, unless you hate father and mother, you can't be my disciple. It's in comparison to how much you love me, it looks like hate. Here's what Kenneth Weiss says, it's really interesting, see if you buy this. The word hate, mesil, to hate. However, when it is used in contrast to love here, it does not retain its original meaning of literal hatred, but a lesser degree of love. God cannot be said to hate anyone.

The idea is, if Jacob had loved and Esau, I loved a little less. What do you think about that? Not by that. It's not a love in terms of how God loves us, you know, for God so loved the world. This has to do with choice, right? This is not His love for Esau as a person. This is love less for the choice that I'm making for descendants.

That's right. That's exactly right. If He chose you for salvation and your best friend in the world not for salvation, it doesn't mean He loves you more than them. It doesn't mean that. Here's a quote from Spurgeon. I thought this was really good. A woman once said to Mr. Spurgeon, I can't understand why God said that he hated Esau. That, Spurgeon replied, is not the difficulty, ma'am, that I have.

My trouble is to understand how God could love Jacob. All men being sinners, we must allow God to retreat into his own sovereignty to act as he will. You and I may say Esau proved himself entirely unworthy of the covenant blessing for he despised them. This however will be seen to be a shallow view of the statement in verse 11. Yeah, how could he love Esau?

It doesn't seem like it was some of these Old Testament guys. God always picks the worst dog in the litter. He seems to do that all the time. So he says, because these children hadn't done anything good or bad, does it go back to his sovereignty? The fact that he knew?

It's like Cain and Abel. Was Abel somehow different than Cain or vice versa? I think it boils down to God's choice. He chose Abel to have his descendants through him as the chosen ones. He chose Jacob. He didn't choose Esau. He chose Isaac instead of Ishmael. It's just a matter of God's choice. It's not that He hates or despises that person. He just didn't choose them. I think a lot of people get this choice mixed up with salvation. And this is not a salvation choice. No, it's not.

And that's something that the Old Testament can produce in a lot of young believers, or believers of any material, I suppose. These choices were for the nation of Israel, right? And the descendancy of the Savior. And the remnant of what these chapters in Romans are all about, in terms of what God's doing with Israel. Esau could have been a believer, right? Could have been.

And it's easier for us to understand Cain and Abel, because I mean, obviously they made choices. You can see their decisions in the way that they brought the sacrifice. But with these guys, there's not that clear obedience slash disobedience in the same way, right? But choice is not a salvific choice. And that's where we can get a little confused at times. Yeah, and I think that's right.

And I think that's the other thing you see Cain and Abel, even though Cain murdered his brother, there was a consequence for that, but in that process, God still blessed him. He let him take his family with him. And Cain was really worried that there was going to be revenge and somebody would harm him.

He said, okay, I'll put a mark on you and they'll know not to harm you. And it's the same thing with with Isaac and Esau. He went to Hagar and to Esau and he blessed both of them. He said, you haven't been chosen to be the heir, but I'm going to bless you. And he blessed them. And he said, you're going to have huge offsprings. haven't turned out to be a real helpful group in the Arabs, but yeah, I mean, they were blessed. He did the same thing with Ishmael. Sure did. Ishmael had one wife and he had 12 sons. And those 12 sons became a humongous nation.

So, you know, he still blesses people he doesn't choose. So it isn't, you know, it's just that I think God chooses more along the line of, here's my man, Abram. He's the guy. Well, you study Abraham's life and you think, how could he choose this idiot? He keeps screwing up all the time, yet he's the chosen one. And Lot was one of the guys that was chosen too. He believed, and yet he can't figure out what base he's on half the time. And Abraham's got to go rescue him, and he still goes back to Sodom. I mean, you would think, you need to wake up here a lot. This isn't too cool for you.

But Abram is the chosen one. Chosen to what? To carry out what God's purpose is. Well, that's kind of what I was going to say. These people were all chosen according to his plan for the future. His plan. That's right. Sure. Not on their merit. That's right.

And they could have been really big-time performers, but if they weren't chosen, they weren't part of the ultimate plan. The plan leading up to Christ in the Old Testament. Every person and every family in that whole genealogy led to Christ, and those are the ones you know. But there's all these other human beings, millions of them, that are somehow fingered off all of these people, but they're not in the line. That doesn't mean that they are less important to God. It just means He's picking it and it's going this way.

Which is, from my perspective, I'm pretty excited about that. You know, based on my own personal history and the fact that God chose me, I'm pretty glad that He did. You know, because I would have never gotten there on my own. You know, Courtney would have, but I wouldn't have. Because he's an engineer. I paid for the advance ticket. So here's the question that you'll run into.

Question seven, is God fair in choosing Jacob and not Esau before they were born? Sure. I mean, wouldn't you think it would be better if God put them both on even ground and said, well, you're both even? Well, he did. We'll see how you do. Before they were born, they were even. Yeah, but they hadn't done anything good or evil in the womb. Yeah. Did he choose them in the womb or did he choose them even before that?

Probably before then, before the creation of the world. Sure. Mike, I think it's interesting that word fair. That kind of comes down to the core of our entire spiritual walk. I agree. Is this fair? Fair. Yeah. And how do we define that word fair in terms of our Creator, right? Like, are you fair in doing this to me right now, God? I mean, how many times do we ask ourselves that, right? All the time. All the time. It's not fair. Maybe just unpack that for a minute.

What do we assume when we start to ask that kind of question? Let's assume that God's only attribute is fairness. I mean, he's got a few others, but let's just assume he's fair. Where does that leave you? We're toast. My understanding is that fair is a human term. It's not a God term. God is just blah, blah, blah. It never says he is fair.

Well, what it turns out, though, is he's ultimately fair. And the reason he's ultimately fair is because if all he did was judge mankind based on fairness, everybody goes to hell. Everybody. Everybody. He's fair. He said, I'm going to be fair. I'm not going to show mercy. I'm not going to do any of that, but I'm going to be fair. And no one will be able to criticize me because I'm fair.

Bye. I do agree, though, that fair is a human term. Just is the attribute, right? Yeah. But fairness is something we try to... I mean, I try to be fair to my kids. you know, fair to my wife about things sometimes. Not so much. I make that mistake, and I get to know about it. But yeah, fairness is a human thing, and we place that human perspective of fairness on God, and we forget that God is... He's just, but He's also loving. And that there's a balance there in His attributes that are really unique to Him alone. Because, you know, Allah is not the same way. You can buy Him out.

So what should our attitude be about God's choices and His fairness? How should I respond to them? I think I only have one of two choices. I can say, I don't like your choices and therefore I don't like you. Or I can say, you're the God of the universe and I accept your choices, whatever they are. That's the only two choices I have.

And what you find out is that the more acceptance of his choices you are, the more you begin to understand that he never makes a mistake. He never makes a choice that is harmful to you as his son. He never does that. It's always for your benefit. Could we say that we accept his choices because we trust that he is sovereign and he knows what he's doing?

Well, you know, it's interesting with God. We can say those words. I can read them in the Bible. But he has taken it upon himself to prove to me personally that he loves me and that he will do everything to benefit me. And so then, it's interesting, he's always making the first move. He never says, I'm going to wait until you trust me. Well, the bottom line is, well, I trust you enough to get saved. But that's just the beginning.

I've often thought that how can you trust somebody you don't know? How do you do that? Here we are in the voting booth. We don't know any of these fools and we're trying to vote for them. And how do you trust them? The only way you can trust them is based on what you've heard or read about them. But with God, He personally shows us in His Word And in our experience, that He is trustworthy. He's never looking to me saying, you've got to step up to trustworthiness there, buddy, or I won't bless you. No, it's the other way around. I'm blessing you to prove to you how trustworthy I am. And I respond. That's what grace is. Well, there's that conviction of the Holy Spirit, which is a totally unique, one-of-a-kind thing, right? It's totally unique. Yeah.

I don't get a conviction about said, you know, potential politician. But when it comes to how he woos us with this... It's amazing how he does it. And we find that we trust him in really difficult circumstances. Why? Because he probably put us through some tough ones before we got to this point.

The best example, again, is Abraham. Abraham, he can't even go down to Egypt without screwing that deal up. He can't even accomplish his offspring the way God told him without messing that up. But 40 years later, 40 years dear, 40 years later, God says, God says, I want you to take your son, the chosen one, and I want you to sacrifice him to me. Abraham never flinched. Why? 40 years. That's why. It took 40 years to get him to where he would trust God enough that there was no question. What's the same with us? Another example of that is Peter. Three times you're going to do that. Absolutely.

And what's he do? No, not three times, but the third time he did it, Jesus looked at him. And he knew. And he knew. He sure did. And from that point on, it changed him. And the Lord Jesus, after he rose from the dead, went and restored him. It's pretty cool how there's one of his characteristics. That's what he does. He restores us. Sometimes he lets us fall off the bridge into a black hole, but that's purposeful.

Romans 5.3. So what does God's choice depend upon? He makes a choice. What's it depend upon? It doesn't depend on or against willing, running, or working on who he chooses, right? He doesn't pick you because you're a good runner, or you're really willing, or you're really working hard. He doesn't pick you for that. What's it depend on? Anything that a human produces, it only depends on God's will. Period. And that's not only in salvation, but certainly in spiritual growth. Unless Jehovah shows mercy, Israel must perish, the entire nation, all of them. If He doesn't show mercy, they all go. Because there isn't any resource.

One of the things the Old Testament proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that God gave them however many years, 8,000 years or 9, whatever, for them to prove. for man to prove that he could live under God and comply and be obedient. The whole Old Testament proves that he couldn't do it in our Christ.

He's the one who did it. And the whole concept of the representative man is really important because if it wasn't that way, then it would go back and depend on me. He depended on Adam. Adam blew it. Fast forward, here's Christ. He depends on Christ to carry out the agreement that they make, and he does. He's trustworthy. And so now, it opens up the gate so that he can bless his creation.

Yes? I think not only does he, it's not worthy in the way we think of it, it's that he is perfect. without sin. And that's the only reason that he's worthy. Who's worthy? God is? Christ. God has to sacrifice some form of himself in order to be good enough to do the job.

And it has to be done perfectly and no man is able to do that. I think the job Christ has, I think the first job that Christ has was to satisfy the Godhead about sin. That was the first job. And it had nothing to do with you and me. Do you see that? I've said this a thousand times.

When the cross is completed and Christ is resurrected from the dead, and He's standing there with Mary Magdalene, is there anywhere that He's under any obligation to offer any of us salvation? Not that I can find. He's under no obligation to offer salvation. But he's satisfied now about the offense of sin against his character. He's satisfied, isn't he? Is there anything else that needs to be done? No, because Christ died, and the Father raised him up. The job is done. The covenant has been completed.

He's standing there, and he could have said right then, well, we're satisfied, we'll see you. and the whole creation would have been lost. But he didn't do that. And that's why salvation is by grace alone. Because he's under no obligation to save anybody. Yet he does. Because of his character. He loves us. And he shows mercy. And he shows grace. That's what grace is. It's being in a position where you don't have to do what you're about to do. And you only do it because you love. That's what he did.

Sin was totally satisfied. Completely taken care of. So now, when he offers salvation to Cheryl, not only can he save Cheryl from certain condemnation, but he exalts her in a position that you can't get your arms around it. It's so magnificent. The fact that he would want us to be in his presence holy and blameless for all eternity. Think about that. That's what he wants. That's what he chose to do. So he saved Cheryl and Cheryl now for all eternity will be in the presence of a holy righteous God in a loving relationship for all eternity. Right there. Not down the hall someplace. Right here where he is. For all eternity.

In Ephesians 1, 3, and 4, where he chose us for the foundation of the world to be placed into Christ, then his plan was to save us that whole time. It wasn't like he goes, okay, you died for their sins, let me think, am I going to save these people or not? I mean, his plan was to save us. It was to save us. I mean, that was his intent. But the cross wasn't about us. Where's the eternal covenant? Who are the principles in the covenant? When you have a covenant, it's a contract. Who are they? The Father and the Son. Where are you? You're not there. You're not there.

God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that whoever believed in Him should not perish but have eternal life. But that wasn't the reason. The reason was to deal with the sin issue. And once that's dealt with, now He can show His love. But he's under no obligation to do it. If he was, it wouldn't be grace. It's a pretty simple equation. So I speed through. Question nine.

Is man able to will or decide Godward? And then after he has so decided and willed, he has the ability to run and, as he says, to hold out? Do you understand the question? Can you will and decide Godward? And after you've done that, can you decide to will and run? And to hold out till the end?

In other words, as a participant in God's mercy, it's not of Him that desires, it's only of Him that shows mercy. So your salvation is dependent on God. Your walk, your Christian life, your whole existence, and your ticket to heaven is totally dependent on God.

If Winnie doesn't make it to heaven, you know whose fault it is? God's. That's right. It's not Winnie's fault. It's God's fault. Because he said that's what he was going to do. He said so. So he's the Savior through the whole process. The whole process. You know, I have to laugh on the positive side. None of us will ever get there and say, well, how about a few chevrons because I did this, this, and this.

And he's going to say, really? Or you're saved and you get there under terrible circumstances, like let's say you committed suicide. So you walk into the gates and what does the Lord say to you? Nice job, Joe. Not too cool. What does He say? He welcomes you as gloriously as He welcomes anybody of His sons.

Why? Because it depends on Him and not you. That's why. We'll do question 10 and then go into lesson 43 next week. Father, how we thank You for Your grace. We thank You that this really is all of You and we can trust You and rest in Your provision. not only that satisfied you about all of the impediments in the way of showing your love and mercy, but we can rest in you for the day-to-day working out of our position and our walk in your dear son, the Lord Jesus, we pray in his name. Amen.