Lesson 37b
Romans 8:29-30 · Mike Doyle · Aug 4, 2019
Romans (2018-21), No. 76
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/49261915505226

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Okay, we are in Lesson 37. We started out last week and we got about one question done. So the question was, what is it that God foreknew and what does foreknow mean? And we went back and forth about a lot of different issues, but probably the defining issue is this. This has nothing to do with God knowing what believers or what human beings would do. This word has to do with knowing somebody personally. So the Bible is very clear that everybody in this room was personally foreknown, infinitely foreknown, as a person in Christ before the foundations of eternity.

It isn't that God doesn't know what's going to happen. When you think about it, it's difficult to get your mind around this, but God does not exist in time, right? So there's nothing future to God, is there? God doesn't think, well, this minute, this minute, this minute, this minute. He doesn't think like that. He has all knowledge and all eternity, but there's no way in which he thinks sequentially or that there's a future.

It's like people say, well, my father-in-law went home to be with the Lord and he's waiting for us. No, he's not. He's in eternity. Everything is right now. Even Courtney's there now. I disagree. I think He works with us sequentially. He gives us what we need when we need it, and not before, and not after. And otherwise, he wouldn't work all these things together for his purpose. I agree. I agree.

And I think for New, he includes that he planned each one of us. in the world, not just his children, but in the world long before time began. And so he knows everyone. But he doesn't know everyone in Christ. No, but this doesn't say in Christ. Let's start with 28. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him. There they are. Those who love Him. Who are those guys? Those are the called ones. Those are the believers. Those are not Democrats.

He does know everything, but the thing is, here's the point, here's where you don't want to go with this discussion. He knew that you would exercise your will to choose him, and so he chose you. That's not what happened. That's not what happened. He specifically knew Carol as a person before he ever created the first ATOM. As a person. What she would do he also knew, but that isn't why he called her. Okay?

And that's an important part, because this issue has to do with God in eternity, not God in time-space. He knows what's going to happen in time-space, but we're the only ones that are stuck in time-space, not God. He's not stuck there. So if the Word of God says that you're in Christ, does that mean you're in Christ in time-space, or in eternity?

That's why I can never change. One of the reasons. And it's your eternal spirit. What's that? It is your eternal spirit that is involved. And what is eternity? What's eternal life? Unending days? Is it unending days? No, it's not that at all. John 17 says eternal life is to know the Father and the Son. Now what does that have to do with time? Nothing. It's all now. All now. See? When God the Son came to this earth as a baby, He came in time. Yes, He did. He was also in eternity at the same time, right? Yeah. He came in the time. Yeah. Sure, I'm going to talk about that this morning.

The Father had personal, intimate knowledge of each one of us before he ever created. Why? Because we were created in his mind. And when God thinks of something in his mind, it's it, it's done. It's there. Just because you don't walk around yet, it's still done. Okay?

Those whom he foreknew are believers whom he had an intimate, rational knowledge of before creation. For clarification, it is not knowledge of who would believe, which would be classified under omniscience. It is a close, intimate knowledge of believers themselves. That's the whole point of the question. lined up with that is question two, why did God predestine believers and what did he predestine us to?

By the way, the word predestine, what's it mean? It means to mark out beforehand, right? Predestination, is it ever talked about in the Bible about non-believers? Did God predestinate some to hell and some to heaven? No. Predestination is only relevant to those who are the called. And if you are one of the called, then things are predestined about you.

But all are called. No, they're not. In invitation. Whosoever will may come. Provision has been made. But who comes? Only that. Now, trust me, when we get, and we're all going to be there, you'll probably look a little better than you do today, at the Great White Throne Judgment, we'll all be there, but we'll be there as a judge, not as a one-two-beat judge, and every single human being who is not in Christ will come before Christ and they will say, I didn't want you then and I don't want you now. We have this idea that they're all gonna get there and see the glory of Christ and go, oh, look what I missed, can I have another chance?

No, they're not. We don't appreciate the power of the sin nature. The sin nature wants nothing to do with God, nothing. Think about this. If I had to spend, as a non-believer, all eternity face-to-face with the glory of Christ, that would be worse than going to hell. Why? Because I would be totally exposed in an environment that just totally would be anathema to me. It's actually a blessing. Hell is a blessing.

Doesn't seem like it does, but it is. you know, because at least God says, well, you don't have to spend it with me. Do you see that? So at the great white throne judgment, nobody is going to say, oh, gee, you know, I really should have when I had the chance. No, they're not going to say that. Why? Because Christ is going to be standing, judging them in all of his glory, and they don't want it. They don't want him.

So what are we predestined to? Conform to his image. Okay. We got saved and now we're being predestined. Is there a possibility that Ralph isn't going to be conformed to the image of Christ? Nope. I've been worried about Ralph. No, there's no chance that he's not going to be conformed. No chance at all.

So this means before marked out, marked out the boundaries beforehand about what's going to happen. Two believers only. See that? Two believers only. And this plan was always in play when he foreknew you before the foundation. It's like, here's the best example. Was the cross of Christ planned or was it a solution to a problem created by Adam? It was planned beforehand, wasn't it? So he was predestined to be crucified.

Is that okay? I mean, I'm totally comfortable with that. As a matter of fact, I'm kind of glad about it. Because if it wasn't predestined, then there's some sort of iffiness about it. Now, predestination, do you get to be excused from your responsibility just because you've been predestined? See, being predestined doesn't remove human responsibility.

A lot of people think it does. A lot of people think it does. But on the other hand, we live under grace, right? What's the problem with being under grace? Or is there a problem? I don't think there's a problem. If I present grace to you as the motivating factor of your life, how does grace motivate you to be responsible? How does it do it? Would it be a love motivation rather than an obligation? A love motivation, okay. Yeah, something stronger than that though. What's stronger than love? Kaiser, did you drink your coffee this morning? How about the life motivation?

We have the resurrected life of Christ. Our whole identity is in Him. He lives under grace and always has been, and so do we. He never had to be motivated by a little bit of a shove, did he? Or legalism, or ought to, or any of that. For the joy set before him, he endured the cross, doing the Father's will. Well, that's what grace is. You know, when we begin to enter into what it is to be under grace, our response is, there isn't anything that we wouldn't do for the Lord.

Nothing. And we wouldn't have to pump up the energy to do it. We couldn't wait to do it. Like the Apostles, you know, interesting reading like the Apostle Paul. Did he have to, you know, take six weeks off to recharge? Not that I ever saw. He couldn't wait for the next thing. for the Lord.

That's what grace does. So we're predestined, marked out beforehand to be conformed to the image of Christ. Question three. What does conform to the image of his son mean? Manifesting his life. Manifesting his life. So that's the manifestation part. That's what the conformity is.

Is this word conform an external confirmation where transform is something internal? Would that be more like transformation where Christ was glorified on earth at the mount? Well, the word conformed here means to bring to the same form with some other person or thing, to render likeness.

Now, the reason I bring up this issue is because there's a school of thought in Christianity that this verse refers only to the new body. That when we go to be with the Lord, when we get a new body, we will be like Him. Our sin nature will be gone, too, when we have our new bodies.

Yeah. So is that what he's talking about? He foreordained for us to be conformed to the image of his Son, and that image is the physical, resurrected, glorified body like Christ has. Is that what he's talking about? I think they're concerned about that. What do you think? The new body. Have you ever heard anything? I think it's the Eternal Spirit. Okay, now think about this. I'm setting up a false premise here, just so you know.

What is an image? What is what? What's an image? What's the word we use for image every day in our society today? An icon. What's an icon on a computer? It represents something, doesn't it? So I could say, well, an image, actually the Greek word is icon, okay?

And if you, if I pulled out a quarter or whatever and I looked at the face on it, I could say, well, that's the image of whoever, who's on a quarter, I don't even know. Washington. What was his name? Washington. It's sideways. Is that the image of George Washington? Yeah, it is. Looks just like him.

Did you guys watch, well you probably didn't, any of the Hall of Fame induction? I watched it the other night about the guy in Colorado that makes the sculptures. And how much work and time he puts in and the people come to him and he goes through, you know, he works off of photographs but then you have to go visit him and he works while you're sitting there. And so when he's done it's supposed to look just like you.

Some of them do, some of them don't. But that's what an image is. Is that what we're talking about? The physical image of Christ? What do you think? How about the idea of looking in the mirror? It's what it represents. What do you mean by that? The icon. So am I being conformed to the image of Christ as what I represent? what the icon represents. So am I the icon? Would it be more of his character, Christ's character, than being conformed to that, more so than the image? I think so. Because here's the thing. Why do I act like a sinner? Why do I sin? Because I have a nature that sins, right? So what's something internally about me manifests itself externally in my sinning, right? So it's internal.

If I have the resurrected life of Christ in my spirit, it should begin to show up one of these days. Do you see that? So it cannot be And I would say that one of the guys that believes this is his constable, who is a, what he does, you know, some people think he's terrific. His whole thing is that this has nothing to do with the internal transformation into the image of Christ. It has only to do with the resurrected body. And I totally disagree with him. Pretty gutsy, huh?

I think that we are recreated in Christ with his resurrected life. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is to manifest that life. The Holy Spirit really has two jobs. The first job is to regulate the old sin nature, my old nature, to the cross. And what does that do to it? It keeps it inactive. And the degree to which good old Mike is held to the cross is the degree to which the life of the Lord Jesus can begin to be manifested through me.

That's what the conform... This is the sanctification process. And when we get to 30, he's not going to mention sanctification because it's really talked about right here. The conforming process is the sanctifying process. See that? So that's what I think it is. I think that we are increasingly sometimes two up and one back, two back and one up. It seems so slow sometimes, but that's what the Spirit of God is doing. He's manifesting the life, dare I say, principle of the Lord Jesus Christ through us so that other persons can see The life of Christ manifested through each one of your personalities. That's the conformity process. Now, when my father-in-law went home to be with the Lord two weeks ago, that was the quick start. Instantly conformed. Doesn't have a glorified body yet, but he's instantly conformed to Christ. Instantly.

Because he sees him for what he is. There's no impediments. You can't stand in front of Christ as a believer and not be like Him. When you look at Ephesians 1-3, He foreordained that we would be blameless. What's the other word? Holy and blameless before Him in love. He did that. He did that.

So, as I'm driving around the last couple of days, I'm trying to put it in my mind, what is it? Like Andrew Malloy said, wouldn't you like to be seeing what he's seeing right now? Yes, I would. Because the result and consequence to me as a person would be everything that we live our spiritual growth life all about, to be conformed, to be exactly like Him in personhood and character, even though you don't have a resurrected glorified body yet.

Pretty cool. Is that right? So anyway, if you run into this discussion about now we're only talking about a body that you're going to get, then you'll be like, well, okay. The problem with this body is that when you have resurrected, glorified life functioning through it, the body can't keep up. The fact that God can even function through the Spirit, the life of Christ through you in this body is amazing to me.

He can't walk through the wall. Who cares? But that's what Christ did. Don't you find it interesting that the most exciting thing about having a resurrected body is walking through walls? What about the fact that there's neither male nor female? What does that mean then? Just what it says. The verse we covered a few weeks ago, there's no Jew or Gentile.

So, I mean really, how many groups of people are there on the earth? Three. There's three. Believers, non-believers, and Jews. Jews, Gentiles, non-believers. That's it. Saved, lost. So, the thing that's hard for us to grasp is that when we go to eternity, Jew and Gentile go away. Why? Because in Christ there is no distinction. Why does master and slave go away? Because that's a non-issue in crisis. How about male and female? Non-issue. It's a non-issue. There's no reason for it. There's no reason for it.

That's right. Yeah. Well, I have a question for you. Under the age of brace, Jews are still considered their own class? They've been set aside. Oh. Well, a Jew is now considered lost. But the Bible only talks about... And they're either a believer or an unbeliever, right? Yeah, let me clarify. The Bible talks about three groups of people through the whole Bible. Gentiles, Jews, and the Church. That's it. The Jews have been set aside now, so they kind of have been split into saved and non-saved. They're not saved.

How about John the Baptist? Is he in Christ? I think so, because he believed God, like Abraham, even though he didn't get to see the crucifixion. Think about what I'm asking you. Is he in Christ? No. I have no problem with the fact that he's saved, Sure, it's the same. Oh yeah, no problem. But he's not part of the church. That's exactly right. He's not part of the body of Christ. The uniqueness and specialness of the body of Christ even goes to no male and female. My friend Roland didn't like that. He didn't want to be a girl for all eternity. So will they save Jews? Will that still be male and female?

Oh, I don't know. It doesn't say. Because it's in Christ. Not that I know of. There's no distinction. But the Jews who are saved, it's not the same as in Christ. Those are in Christ. I don't know. I have just a weird thought. No, it's a great thought. You know, there's a distinction between male and female in the body of Christ on the earth from the way that God has structured the society. But Donna and I are absolutely the same before Christ positionally. We're no different. How about a Jew? You know, I don't know. How about if you're a Levite and your wife is from some other tribe? I don't know about that.

Well, I think the amount of transfiguration, because Elijah and Moses, they were still identifiable as males. They absolutely were. They were saved, but still they were recognizable as male. something other than a woman? Right. I don't know. Well, during the millennium, there will be male and female. Yes, there will. For them. Yes, there will. Not for church. Yeah. But in the internal state, we don't know a whole lot about that. For, yeah. Yeah, there isn't a lot of, I mean, you know. Male and female just are not essential in Christ. Why?

We guys are better looking anyway. Which will be kind of, I don't know what that's going to be like. But we'll recognize each other. Courtney and I won't zing each other anymore. Oh yeah, oh yeah we won't. They'll actually love it. Oh, that's poisonous. Let's see.

I have one last thing I want to say on this. Through the new birth we become children of God and inherit his image. This image, indistinct in the newcomer, becomes progressively clearer and distinct as a believer grows in Christ and Christian life. Again, it's a position-condition issue. The conformity process is conditional. Positionally, are you like Christ? Positionally you are, but conditionally you're not. Okay, so it's interesting when you go home to be with the Lord and the beam of judgment shows up, that conformity will be an issue, but then from then on it won't be. That's kind of cool. Okay, question four.

Who is the firstborn among many brethren? Jesus Christ. Who? I didn't hear. Jesus Christ. If you look at Colossians 118, Or 15, Christ is the firstborn of all creation, but here he is the firstborn from the dead, Colossians 1.18. The eldest brother in this family of God's sons, though a son in the sense of not true of us. Isn't that ridiculous? Now listen to what this guy says. I look at some of these quoted theologians and they're idiots. Listen to what this guy says.

Christ is first born of all creation, Colossians 1.15.

But here, he is first born from the dead, Colossians 1.18. Now listen to this part. The eldest brother of this family of God's sons, though son in a sense not true of us. B.S. The verses we're going to look at in the main service says exactly the opposite of that. It says we are sons. And Cricus is not our elderly brother. He's not our elderly brother. He's our life. And we're in him. So I find it interesting, we are the sons of God. Sons. By the way, when did he designate us as sons? knew you as a son then, right?

So what does it mean to be the firstborn? It means to be the firstborn from the dead, but there's another aspect to this. What does firstborn mean? Has to do with, like, the Feast of the Firstfruits? What's that like? What's the Feast of the Firstfruits like?

What happened there? So they went out and harvested the first part of it, showed it to God, offered it up to him and said, the whole rest of the harvest is going to be just like this. The Lord Jesus stands before the Father and says, the whole rest of the harvest is going to be just like this. Who's he talking about? You and me. You and me. That's right. Nothing lacking.

So confirmation of the saints to the image of the Lord Jesus was for the purpose that he might be the firstborn. He's the first one. He's the prototype. And all of us in him, some of us are in the 70 percentile, some are in the 40 percentile. No, we're just like him. from a positional standpoint.

So the reason I think that the firstborn among many brethren, that Paul put it in there, was to show that in Christ there's no difference between him and me except for deity. Our acceptance before the Father is exactly what his is. We're not prodigals. We're not the son that stayed home. We're just like him. It says in The highest place, shall we not say, that God could give creatures.

God puts us there, and of Christ it is written, he is not ashamed to call them brethren. And brethren here is same life, same family. Because we are all of one with Christ. Alright with that? Interesting to know what your position is. So now it's your turn. Question five. Can you think of ways that Christendom has misused this verse? And how could these misused interpretations affect your understanding of your identity in Christ? So, can you think of ways that Christendom has misused this verse? I didn't write down any answers, so you've got to come up with something. First of all, think about this.

If you don't understand position and condition, you're going to totally misuse these verses. Totally. Because parts of them are positional and parts of them are conditional, right? So if you don't know that distinction, then how do you put them together? You end up in the default position where you better be working pretty hard. Right?

So I would say that These verses have to do, and are under the heading of grace, in any sense that you get, in Christendom, in any sense that you're put under any sort of a performance mode, then you have totally frustrated what these verses are saying. You okay with that? Even dispensationalists screw this up. And especially the guys that are the progressive ones, because they don't apprehend the grace here.

There's a guy, what is this guy's name? He actually lives in Denver. And he, what the heck is that guy's name? You'd recognize the name. But he wrote a 560 page book. called The Reign of the Overcomers or something like that. And even this book was, in the margin, was hailed by John Wolver. Everybody knows John Wolver. You know what this guy said in 560 pages?

That there are two classes of Christians. There are those that are overcomers and those that aren't. There are those that are worker bees and those that are lazy. And that those that are lazy will end up in heaven, but they will not have any position of authority in Christ. That's what this guy said. I thought they were the queen bees.

No, that's wrong sex. So understand, this guy's a Dallas graduate, 560 pages, and he can't get away from the idea that if you're not doing something, you somehow are less than those who are working hard. That totally takes away the whole idea of positional truth. Am I standing in Christ? And grace, and how grace operates. That's a frustration.

You know how the reformers do it? What are the five points of Calvinism? T-U-L-I-P. What's P stand for? Perseverance of the Saints, right? And how do you know you persevered? That you got in. That when you die, you got in. So what does that mean today? I better be humping and make sure I'm one of them perseverers. Right? From the denomination I came out of, you can lose and gain your salvation back and forth three or four times every day. You know? Well, don't you think perseverance here probably has to do with your faith, maintaining your faith in loving God back? Let me ask you a question back. that Frances, five years ago, believed in Christ and was saved. And then last week she decided, nah, it's nonsense. I'm not going for that anymore. I don't have any faith in that at all. Did she lose her salvation? No, she didn't. No. She didn't. By God himself. That's right. So good luck on getting rid of it.

You've heard the saying that if I don't get to heaven, it's God's fault, not mine. Because he's the one that saved me. If I'm an Armenian, from the Charismatic realm of things, or the Pentecostal realm of things, I can lose my salvation and gain it back at any given time. You know, because I'm the one that decided about salvation. I'm the one that did it. I'm the one that made the decision. I saved myself. And if I decide on Thursday, I don't want to save myself anymore, I'm not.

That's how you frustrate this kind of stuff. And contemporary Christianity is full of this nonsense of where there's absolutely just a minimal amount of eternal security, and these verses are used in a way that takes away a believer's security. It's a way to control the... That's why they do it. Yeah. That's why they do it. Well, it's not a way to control it. man wants to do is do something. Well, he wants to be involved. He wants to be involved. So it's always going back to that and doesn't know the identification part.

Sure. Done with. Yeah. And, you know, by all these others that you have to do something and which is totally contrary to grace, unmerited. So, you know, all these rely, you know, are based on old anemic man still living and breathing and doing what he wants to do. Isn't all that subjectivism?

Sure, no question that it is. See, the great thing about the principle of position is that it lays out before the believer what God has done. He did it, and you can't change it. Now, in his sovereignty, without coercion, he brought you to a place where you exercise your will to believe in the personal work of Christ. You did that. But now you're done. Your job is over in terms of the security of your salvation. And so you read page after page, especially in Paul's epistles about your position in Christ that can never be changed because he's the one that put it there. He's the one that did it.

Yet, is there anything more difficult for a believer to just settle down in than his position in Christ? It's really difficult because my circumstances don't line up with my position a lot of times. And of course, how I feel about it is a lot more important than what it says. Or my circumstances are much more telling than what God says.

And so faith is based on fact and in the person of Christ. And yet it slips away from that. And now my faith is based on me and how I feel about it and what I think about it. You know, if God left my security and my salvation up to me, I'd have been toast a long time ago. Okay.

Positional truth is so important to us as believers and to understand when we're seeing it and reading it, that it is fact. finished, done with, that I am positioned in Christ. You know, I and my responsibility before God believed. Everything else He did. Everything else He did. He put me in Christ. He crucified me. He buried me. He rose me. He put me in Christ. And He put the Holy Spirit in front of me as a guarantee that that's not going to ever change, no matter what I do.

It's a hard concept when you're humping down the road and you've been taught a doctrine in Christendom that said, well, you know, if you're not quite walking the walk, you know, you better worry about whether you're going to make it at the end. Does that mean once we pass through the Bema we'll be smoking and burning? No, we'll be smoking and burning. We'll be toast. I don't know, Mike. My fire will be a little warmer than yours, I think.

So who's responsible for doing all these verses? Who's responsible for all that's done, these verses in 8, 28, 29, and 30? Who's responsible for that? It says that God works all things together for good. For those he foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image. Who does that? He might be the firstborn. It's the Spirit.

The verse that I like the most about that is 2 Corinthians 3.18.

It says, Beholding is in a mirror. That's what I'm doing. The mirror is the Word of God, the glory of the Lord. So I'm studying God's Word, I'm reading it, and I'm beholding Christ there. And the beholding process transforms me into His very image. But then it says who's doing it. What's the last part of the verse? Even as by the Spirit. He does it. He even got me there to behold. He did all of that.

Question seven, what does called mean? It means that you got an invitation. Does called mean invited? We don't know? Called is on his side, where an invitation is on our side. We perceive it as... So those are called according to his purpose. Does that mean that, boy, we hope you come and show up to this purpose party we're having? What does that mean?

The cult are a specific, you all, members of the body of Christ, a company in which God has put together as the body of Christ. It is neither a religious experience or even not an initial understanding of what's going on, but it's an electing grace of God. He did it. which has so marked out the fear of their being that they name the called. They are the called according to His purpose. Is that all y'all? No. It's only y'all? Well, there are some Christians in Texas, I guess. All y'all.

So, I mean, Have you ever thought about the fact that it's a good thing that He called at least one person? Because if He didn't, no one would be saved. Not a single one. If He called one, He's called them all, right? He makes salvation available to all. But only the called come. That's because He foreknew us, right? Yeah. God wishes that none should perish. None. That little bell goes off in your head, well that's not fair. The answer to that is God's farewell go to hell. Because he doesn't, not one of us deserves salvation.

Do you think you do? You sure? I do because of what Christ has done. You're bolder than So the eternal foreordination appears in time as a calling, as an effectual calling. Could you avoid the calling if you're one of the called? No. Okay, what does justified mean? Question eight. I'm not going to get through this today, but that's okay. We're not having, by the way, we're going to have Sunday school next week. We'll be camping. Come on, we've been through this word a thousand times. What does it mean? Declared righteous. It means to be declared righteous. It doesn't mean to make righteous, it means to be declared righteous.

What's the difference? Is that the second buzzer? Oh, you don't have to answer then. It's God's judgment call. Just as if I never sinned. No, no. He's judging that you're righteous. We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We've been justified. Let's close. Dear Father, how we thank you for your word. How we thank you that, boy, you know, it's so gracious sometimes that all we can do is just sit and marvel at how gracious you have been to us. We thank you. We pray in your son's precious name. Amen.