Biblical Counseling

Alright, the topic this week is grief, and we need to kind of make some connections here. You know, something interesting, you ever hear about some event happens and they'll send in, I'm talking about like in a secular situation, particularly in a school or something, they'll send in grief counselors.

I don't know what the grief counselors tell them. It seems to me that a believer has got all sorts of answers when it comes to grief, especially if the people you're talking to are believers. What unbelievers can tell one another that's helpful, I'm not quite sure. It's like, I feel bad that you're feeling bad. Isn't that too bad? So I think one thing is when it comes to dealing with grief, scripture has some answers that are not found elsewhere, that are unique to God's words. But let's ask a question.

Last week we talked about disappointment and depression. How might grief be connected to disappointment and depression? What do you think about that? How might grief be connected to disappointment and depression? Hope deferred makes a man sick. Hope deferred is what Dean is telling us makes a man sick. Other thoughts? That might be the result of the grief. A depression or disappointment? Good observation. There may be a connection between this grief and a depression.

I was teaching several years ago at an elementary school where a girl lost her eye eventually through an accident in a PE class. And I didn't see the relevance of it. I didn't see where it would be helpful to me. You know, there's several types of grief. You can go through what grief means, a job. Okay. A loss of a job. Yeah. Okay. Or of a sibling. Okay. Yes.

And there's different stages. Yeah, I think that brings up a good point. When we talk about grief, it can include a lot of different kinds of things that are initiating for any particular individual. Typically, it's a loss or some kind of a significant, disturbing or traumatic event. And it can be something like losing a body part or even the function of a body part. It can involve somebody close to you. You mentioned a job, for example, and a job could be as simple. Simple as a loss of income, but it may be other things. Maybe that's your social circle, you know It may be a disconnection with people you've spent quite a bit of time with and our friends So yeah, there are a number of different things that could be involved in grief and that's an important recognition We can any one of us encounter things that cause some extent, time-wise, or depth of grief.

And it can come from different sources. So I think the variability of what's involved in grief is a good thing to recognize. It's helpful to recognize. One of the things I think is valuable here is that scripture has a lot to offer. And it is exceedingly valuable. It is also unique. The world simply doesn't have an equal to it, doesn't have an equivalent to it.

You know, when Hal was at the hospital at one point in time, he shared a hospital room with a fellow who was a professor of psychology at University of New Mexico. And as they shared the hospital room, Hal was saying, now you've studied the psychology in great depth and you really have a great deal of detail figured out, don't you?

And the guy says, yes, this is not how I told him. He says, no, my understanding is, though, while you've got a great deal of detail, you really don't have many answers. And he said, yes. Yeah, so that's the thing. We have a great deal of understanding. It doesn't help much, but we have a lot of understanding, right? And I think the thing is, with Scripture, we do have answers. We do have understanding that goes somewhere, not just, now we know a whole bunch, but it isn't worth anything. So, Scripture is unique and very special and wonderful in that respect. The next thing that we have down here that's important here is the time perspective on grief.

I think Bev mentioned stages. It is true that people go through stages. One of the things that has come out, though, that's been corrected from an idea that was put forth in the 1960s, is that there are specific stages and specific sequence. People do go through stages, but it's not uniform. One person may go through a long period of anger and not go through the other supposed stages.

Some people may get into flip-flop. between feeling bad and bargaining, you know. That's another one of the supposed stages. So, so, pardon? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the thing is, what it amounts to is different people will, because of the nature of the event, because of the nature of each person's relationship to the event, Each person will go through different kinds of stages and degrees and some people bypass what might be considered one of the standard stages and somebody else get completely engulfed with one particular one. You mentioned anger or bitterness. Yeah, I mean those can become entrenched where it's a state of heart. Yeah, yeah.

So that's an important recognition. The time perspective on grief And certainly working through grief does take time. It's something we see pointed to in scripture. I give a few instances in Genesis, Job and Daniel. We could certainly point to others. Grief does take time to work through, but there are some time perspectives that are really valuable and important, and they're all fully biblical.

The first one is that the teaching among us as believers in our own reading of the Word of God can give us preparation for those times. Because they're going to come, right? You're not going to get to heaven's gates without going through a time of grief of some kind.

Or multiple times of grief. And of different kinds. Do you ever know somebody, maybe it's yourself, that went through times of grief and you almost don't know how they went through it? You ever know that? Yeah. And it's amazing, people can also go through things that would ordinarily bring phenomenal grief, and yet you see them come through it amazingly. I had, when I was a little kid, I had a Sunday school teacher whose name was Mrs. Kingham, and her husband had a degenerative nerve condition. where he gradually lost control of various parts of his body and eventually only could control his head.

So he liked to write poetry. It was a little tough to do when you can't use your hands. And so my dad fixed up a little deal where he'd have like a dowel or a pencil hanging from his head and somebody would put a band, you know, around his head with this dowel or this pencil and he would use the typewriter. He'd go like this and write poetry. using the little band and stick to type out on the typewriter his poetry. Because that was all he could move. So he'd go around like this, write his poetry.

Well, he got towards the end, and he was in the hospital, and things were starting to fail. And he told one of the nurses, I'm going home tomorrow. And the nurse thought, you're nuts. You're not going home tomorrow. That ain't happening, because you're going downhill. He said, no, I'm heading home tomorrow. The next day, the monitor flatlined.

Beep. They run in there, in Dick Kingham's hospital room, and they get his heart ticking for a little bit. They turn around, and all of a sudden, beep, and it stayed there. He was right. He went home tomorrow. And I was amazed as I was probably 10 years old or something like that, I went to his memorial service and it ended with a hallelujah chorus. It ended with a hallelujah chorus. It was major cool.

Believers can have a preparation for these times of grief that come out of the richness of God's Word. Because the things that cause us grief, yeah, it doesn't mean that there isn't grief. There are things that happen. But the things that cause us grief don't have the same significance.

If the Lord brings a difficulty in my life, isn't it wonderful to know that every single one has a purpose? I may not know exactly what that purpose is, but every single one has a purpose. That's cool. This is a senseless waste. It's not, I don't know why God is frustrating me so much. Every single one has a purpose, and that is really, really wonderful news.

As we look through this, there's that first bullet there, talks about the preparation, giving us a perspective, giving us God's understanding and insight, that there's nothing that's going to come into my life or yours. that God doesn't have some meaning and some purpose behind. And we can have a perspective on these things that the world doesn't even comprehend. The world can't even imagine it. It doesn't understand it.

So, when we teach, for example, we teach doctrine around here. Doctrine isn't so that you can go, isn't that nice, let's put it on the shelf again. Right? Doctrine is to be lived. Doctrine is so that we have understanding that's true, that's right, and it's of eternal value. That's why we're studying it.

The second bullet there, there's a ministry among believers when an event takes place and for the time of grief and mourning afterwards. And that's something we'll talk in more detail about here, so obviously that bullet is But the next one, there's a ministry in retrospect for the person who's been through a time of grief and mourning.

Anyone been through a major loss? And if you've had those times of major loss and been through the process, you are better prepared to go back then and to minister to others because of that time. So the grief experience is God's preparation for you for ministry. We think that going off to seminary is preparation for ministry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The grief experience that we went through, especially if we walk through it with the Lord, especially if we come out with the biblical understanding, is a preparation for ministry. That's preparation for ministry for each and every single one of us. Right? that the person who has been through that kind of a loss is far better able to turn around and minister to somebody else who is going through it. Or, the first bullet, to prepare people for things to happen.

Whether it's the loss of use of a body part, whether it's the loss of a body part, whether it's the loss of a job, whether it's a loss of a loved one, and as Deb pointed out, that can be different relationships too. Parents, siblings, children, all those things.

They're not quite the same. I say loss of a loved one and that's not all equal. They're not quite the same. It depends on what kind of relationship you have with someone. That's right. In other words, we'll say loss of a loved one, but that means different things because we have different kinds of relationships, don't we? And so, you know, they're not identical. They're not just cookie cutter.

There is a different experience in the grieving because the relationship is different. A different kind of loss. Some of the words we use, we talk about grieving, we talk about mourning, sorrow, those are some of the words that have some overlap in meaning here. Let's go to the next page there, page 119.

How is a believer's grief to be different? Now, one of the things that that assumes is what? A believer will have times of grief. I think one of the things that would not be helpful to present is the idea that if you're a believer, you just don't go through grief. Wrong answer. Yes, you do. Let's take it for instance.

From my grandfather dying, that was a particularly difficult time for me. And it took, frankly, years to get to the place where it didn't grab me. He was a man who had a particular place in my life. And so when he died, that was big. The grief was real.

Now, am I going to see him one day? Yep. He and I will both be face to face with the Lord. He's there now. And so that wasn't there, but I still missed him. That missing is still there. Now, until I walk through heaven's gates, that missing will continue. Because he had a particular place and the Lord took him. So there is grief, but the grief is different, and that's what we want to underscore here. Here, Paul expresses in Romans 9, 1-5, His grief is about his fellow Israelites.

Look there, Romans 9, 1-5, I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying. My conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit. Which, by the way, that's a Hebrew manner of expression where you say it not just once, but three times. Telling you the truth, I'm not lying. My conscience testifies with me. And notice that two out of the three members of the Trinity are involved.

But then, verse 2, I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For who? For Israel. I could wish that I myself were a curse separated from Christ. He was willing. I'd be willing to go to hell for them. If only it would make a difference. Isn't that something? Isn't that something? There is a grief because they, as a nation, with some personal exceptions as a nation rejected the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

Here's John 16 through 22 is another passage where the Lord addresses grief. There's a distinction between the magnitude and the negative emotions between believers and unbelievers. And that comes to this, 1 Thessalonians 4, but we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep. And asleep is Paul's term for those who are believers who have died. He uses that more than in this passage. So that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. Did he say, so that you will not grieve? That's not what he said, is it? What's the distinction here? You won't grieve. like the unbeliever. You won't because they don't have the hope.

Up above the city of Philippi was a mountain and the mountain had two things going on on it. One is there were gold mines up in the mountain up above Philippi. The other thing is that the lower part of the mountain was littered with graves. And in Philippi they would have a special society, the society of the Thracian horsemen.

And that society would come alongside you and do special ceremonies when somebody died in order to guide the soul of the one who died in the afterlife and to try to impact it by doing certain rituals. And that was supposed to give you hope. And you could go up there on the hill and visit this grave and look at the little markings of the Thracian horsemen. And that was supposed to give you hope. Oh, they did the right rituals. I hope. And so they really didn't have much hope. They hope the guys did it right, but they're not quite sure what difference it made. But the believer has a certain hope, see? Huge difference. Big difference.

And verse 18 is, here's the comfort one another with these words. So a believer may indeed grieve the loss of a loved one or other losses. But there are differences in the character of the grief. Let's step through what some of those are. The unbeliever has no hope. That's one of the things we see in this passage and a couple others referenced there in 1 Corinthians and Ephesians. While the believer has the blessed hope. No hope or the blessed hope? Which one do you pick? Well, that's pretty clear, isn't it? No hope or the blessed hope? I remember when I was in college, the community college that I started off at had requirements. If you're going full-time, you're going to take a PE course, which I thought was actually good.

Kept me from chewing on the book so much. But I remember this one coach, Coach Noonan was his name. And his was, you know, you go and run so many laps and you're done with your class. Well, I was lazy, so I ran my laps fast. So I was done early, and I went over there and was talking to Coach Noonan, and with a couple other guys there, and they were talking about, you know, somebody passed away or something. And I asked Coach Noonan, I said, are you concerned about dying?

And boy, his face just went ash and gray. He said, oh, I don't want to die. Oh, I'm afraid of dying. It really bothered him. And that's the one thing. He was a no-hope kind of guy. I mean, athletic and active and doing all kinds of things, I suppose. You know, getting paid reasonably well at the college there. But he didn't have the hope. Boy, the blessed hope sounds awful good. Yeah, a certain hope.

How about the next one? The unbelievers without God. Ephesians 2.12 has actually the word atheos, atheist. Without God in the world. Without God in the world, while the believer is in Christ. Here's the unbeliever without God. Here's the believer in Christ. Well, that's a whole different position to be in. Has Christ in him. You and Christ. Christ in you. and the source of the believer's power and sufficiency. Boy, that's radical different. That's radical different.

The unbeliever can indeed have a fear of death, as Coach Noonan did, but the believer has already died. Worried about dying? No problem, I've already done that. Already been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Why? I died with the Lord. Am I worried about dying? No, hey, I've already been there. I've already been through that. I've already died with Christ and now I'm alive in Christ. Worry about dying? No, sorry, I've already been through them waters.

The unbeliever has the white throne judgment to look forward to with God's just condemnation of sinful works. But the believer has life with Christ forever to look forward to. without any mourning or crying or pain ever again. Are we looking for a long delay before there's mourning or crying or pain? No. Ever again. Never ever again.

That's cool. That's major cool. The believer's judgment is not for condemnation. How about that? You're going to stand before the Lord someday, and there will be a judgment, but it's not for condemnation. It just isn't. There's therefore now no condemnation for those with Christ Jesus. The believer's judgment is not for condemnation, it's only an evaluation, how much can I reward you?

In the very last chapter of the Bible, the book of Revelation, you know what Christ is looking forward to? He says, behold, I'm coming quickly and my reward is with me. He says, I'd love to reward you. I just can't wait till that day when I reward you. That's what it's about. It's not me as a believer, shaking in my boots. Oh no, what's Jesus going to do? Yeah, there are things that will be burned away. There are things that will be burned away. But his focus is not on that.

It's only to say, how much can I reward you? Because that's what he's looking for. Yet, you know, when you think about it, the Lord wants us to be looking forward to his coming. You know what he's looking forward to at that coming? He says, I can't wait to reward you. It's going to be great. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Let's look at page 120, the last page there.

So what other guidance do we have about this ministry to the grieving? There is a place for weeping with those who weep. In Romans 12, 15, rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. At the same time, however, believers have a ministry of comfort and encouragement. This one we just read in 1 Thessalonians 4, therefore comfort one another with these words. 2 Corinthians chapter 1 is a great one for dealing with God who comforts us, the God of all comfort. The God who comforts us.

There also is a turning point from grief and sorrow to joy and rejoicing. I think that's a key thing for a Christian. It is possible, and we noted this early, it is possible for a human being, I would say even a believer, to get to a place where the grief just stays and stays and stays. If you say, hey, snap out of it, there isn't any snapping out of it. The answer, though, for the believer is that, is there grief? It's real. It's there. But there is, for a believer, also a turning point where it's not always grief.

I told you, I grieved about my grandfather dying. He was 97, so his life was not short by human standards. He outlived two wives. My mom wouldn't let him have another one. But I really enjoyed the time that I spent with him. He was at a care home in his last days, and I went there just probably a matter of days, weeks at most, before he went home to be with the Lord.

And I brought my guitar with me. And so we sang some songs together there in the lobby. And it's amazing. Here he was, not that far away from being home with the Lord, but he remembered the words to a lot of songs. He couldn't read them, but he could remember them. And just looking at that, it was neat to be able to share that with him. I did that with my older brother, too, about a week before he went home to be with the Lord.

We sang a few songs. He was dying of cancer. And again, I brought my guitar and sang a few songs. And then he was pretty done energy-wise. He didn't have much energy beyond that. He said, Vern, I'm ready for what's next. Whatever Lord has next, I'm ready for it. And so that was around Christmas time, about 17 years ago. And the Lord took him home the next day.

I have some further, oh, excuse me, I need to, this John 16 we made reference to, let me look at that. Let's move down here, because Jesus had presented the idea, you're going to see me and then you're not going to see me, you know, but then you'll see me again.

In verse 20, truly, truly, I say to you, and by the way, the truly, truly is twice, those are all the gospel of John. I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will grieve, but your grief will be turned to joy. There will be a turning point. Jumping down to verse 22, Therefore you too have a grief now, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you. There is a turning point in grief. There is a turning point in grief. And the absolute turning point is going home to be with the Lord.

That's an absolute turning point. You're not going to be able to carry it past heaven's gates. And you don't need to remember the lock-in name and the password. Isn't that nice? But there's a turning point in grief and going home to be with the Lord is the absolute turning point. But often there's a turning point while we're here as well. And that's by God's intent and design. that we can get to a place. Does it ever get to be here where the thing that caused you grief, it's like it never happened? No. No, that probably doesn't happen. No. There's a place there. You probably hear as I tell about my grandfather, my brother, that I start getting choked up. Yeah, that's been a while. Yeah, Mike?

What's this world going to be like? I think in that, what you're looking at is, in this specific instance, the world will look at things that it can rejoice in, but the world's rejoicing is temporary. The world's rejoicing is without spiritual insight. And in this specific one here, because the Lord Himself is going to die, the world's rejoicing, hey, Jesus is dead.

And yet the disciples will mourn during that time. So that's a specific instance he's looking at. Let's look at some further points of guidance on ministry to those who are grieving. Sometimes the best thing during the most intense time of grieving is to simply be there. It's interesting, the account of Job, where Job had immense cause for grief.

Why was there such cause for grief with Joe? Anybody remember why would there be such cause for grieving? He lost, just wipe out, lost his children. And so, yeah, and it's not just I lost a child, you just lose the whole bunch of them, okay? So that was one. What else? Remember what else happened to Joe? Yeah, just loss of children, loss of possession, so there's just a lot to grieve over here. Yeah, this is just disastrous.

Not only that, his friends feel the help. Well, and his friends end up giving him all sorts of wrong perspectives and advice and even accusations, you know, which are important to take note of. But I think one thing you've got to give them credit for, they came and were with him. and basically just shut their traps for a week. But what they said afterwards was not always so good. But by one thing you got to credit him for, they just were with him. And sometimes just the presence of somebody. It's not what words do I have. Sometimes it's it's not the words, it's the presence. Norm? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, his wife, yeah, curse the Lord and die, right? Yeah, she doesn't have a problem. Yeah, yeah.

I think he probably wished that she had kept quiet for longer than a week, with that kind of advice. It may be that speaking too early, especially with words that are not well-chosen or true, can make the time heavier rather than lighter. This is Job chapter 6, where again the wife comes up with these choice words. Nice piece of advice. Well-chosen words that are few may be a whole lot better than just coming off with a lot of talk.

Yes? I can remember all the dumb things that you said to me. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's all because they just put their arms around me. Yeah. Those that just stayed so close to me. Isn't that something? Isn't that amazing? I think this is a key principle. Presence, not verbiage. And the difference is phenomenal.

And it is probably better to only say something minimally and with words well chosen and carefully selected than to say anything at all. Because I think you're in a very vulnerable time. All children are going to feel those harsh words even if they don't know how to write. And so you do have to be careful.

I remember one gentleman, I mean he was a big leader, a Christian leader. He had a church, a ministry, everything. And I noticed you remember that, but not positively. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And here's an instance, the key point here is presence, even with silence. is better than a few words spilled out that end up being not helpful.

And what can happen? It's one of those times where you don't know what to say. Well, probably it's a good thing. Just don't say anything, because the presence there is going to mean a whole lot more than words that just spill out and end up not doing much help.

They speak the truth. Like, you know, you say the first night, Edward had a little chance to meet with someone who was trying to shine himself. Yes. And this is a key thing, and that's why the advice is, boy, unless you're sure the words are the right words, it's better not to say anything. Your presence there is going to be most important.

As both of you have brought out, and I could say similar things, word spoken in a moment like that can easily be the wrong thing. And another gentleman said to me, you know, how's God doing, Beth? How's God doing? Well, you know, God's doing fine now. He's doing fine. He's wonderful and all that. He's doing really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and I don't know how to even. Yes, but it still doesn't work, yeah. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep, you know. The rejoicing with those who weep thing doesn't work so good, right? Yeah, whoopee, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is tough.

I think it's just it's a recognition. You know, this is a loss. And really, it's a loss beyond words. So, yeah, if you don't know what to say, it's OK. Don't don't have to say that your presence is really going to mean as much as anything. I'm sorry. Might be, yeah. And that's fine.

But just like you've noticed, and I could bring up similar stories, some people can say something brief and you remember it for how awful it was. And that's really too bad. Because at a moment like that, what you need is to have somebody present a few well-chosen words. I'm sorry certainly is one of those. It verbally shares in their weeping with those who weep, right? And that's fine.

Some of the things that people try to say that are no good. I know my older brother died and somebody came up to my mom and said, well, you still got four more, you know? That didn't help, you know? Oh, boy. Okay. All right. Let's go on to the next one.

When speaking, speak lovingly and hopefully, but with truth. Certainly, lovingly and hopefully, but with truth. And by the way, that's not to set aside the sympathy, just words like I'm sorry or something like that. And you also have to look again for the timing for that, not just any words of hope will do.

When I say in truth, if a person was not a believer, should you go up and say, well, he's in a better place? No. You know, probably not. I wouldn't think so. Scripture doesn't describe Lake of Fire as a better place, and even waiting around for that time is not described as a better place. So that just doesn't seem like a good set of things to say. When there is an instance of, say, doing a memorial service for someone, say the person that died was not a believer, what is offered is the hope for those who are living and presenting the gospel to those people and not coming up with false words about, you know, hey, this guy, you know, isn't he nice, he's in a better place, or some vague words like that. Just simply not true. And it doesn't tell people what's the issue for them. Here's another one.

With sympathy and gentleness at a time well chosen, comfort and assure with the truth. Spiritual truth is comforting like nothing else and no one else. The God of all comfort. He is the God of truth. He is the very definition of truth. Truth is what's needed.

Well chosen. Well put. Carefully considered. Fitting to the moment. That's going to be appropriate. Any other thoughts, ideas, insights, perspectives? Ruth? I was just thinking that when you talk with somebody, I've had people say to me, well don't feel anger, that's a sin. You know, don't. You know, make sure you test it before you go to sleep, you know, whatever, that whole thing.

And I think it's really important just to acknowledge the feelings of the person who screams. Because I remember when I was going through it, that's what I wanted, was somebody just to say, yes, I remember that feeling. I remember that anger, or I remember just the incredible sadness, or whatever. And just for somebody to say, I remember that.

It's huge. I think the thing is that there can be intense and sometimes sudden emotions. Any of you have been through some kind of a grieving process? Sometimes you're surprised at how suddenly something comes up. You're just going along and everything seems fine and all of a sudden something just vaguely brings something to your memory.

My older brother worked in the electronics industry as a quality engineer. And so driving by some building or seeing a product that was a product line that he worked on, all it would take to trigger it. It's amazing. It'd just be up in a moment. And the feelings just are what they are.

Certainly, we need to process it. and deal with it, but all sorts of emotions come up and it isn't necessarily something you have a lot of control over. I had my, I was doing a spelling test one day, and the boy tried to spell the word back and spelled Tate instead. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what else can you do? Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's an important thing to recognize that these kinds of things will hit you at some, you know, it's not like, hey, let's have a five o'clock, you know, grieving time. It's just these things hit you and emotions you don't even expect will suddenly well up and it's not necessarily even because there's some spiritual state that is responsible for it. It may be, like in your instance, a word. I'd look at an electronics product and all of a sudden find myself grieving. So, yeah, it can be different things. Pardon? Or apple pie. Apple pie, yeah. It's whatever you relate to it, you know.

You know, somebody comes by and you notice that they have a sweater that looks a lot like the one that, you know, This loved one had, and before you know it, I mean, the person doesn't understand, but you're bawling, you know. I talked to one fellow and what triggered it for him was a certain perfume. He had an aunt that had died and a certain perfume just grabbed him. And this guy had a medical office and so he'd walk in and a patient would come in with a perfume and he'd say, excuse me. And he doesn't have to leave.

And that's the sort of thing, you can have things that trigger it and it'll come back at any moment. With the grieving process, I think one of the things just to recognize is that we'll have triggers that nobody else will understand. I'm sure no one else, Ruth, in your circumstance would have understood that. Okay, misspelled it, so what? But for you, that was exactly the trigger.

Yes, certainly the Lord knows each one of these things. That's, I think, a comfort during the process. The Lord knows this. The Lord is not ignorant and far away and distant from all these things. He knows it. And that's key. I think when we try to say stuff to comfort people, we're thinking that somehow we can be it. We're putting the onus on ourselves and not realizing that it's the Spirit, our God, that's going to use us to help comfort those who are grieving. What's important in all this is to realize that we just need to be available for the Spirit to use us however He's going to. Because He knows so much better what that individual is going through, and what will be that encouragement to them. And if God in China, He serves His people, we just need to be available.

Yeah, we are not under compulsion to conjure up something. Yeah, good point. Alan? I was thinking, too, one of the things God takes us to things we have to be able to empathize with somebody. Exactly. A lot of times we take empathy to the point of, now I've got to do something about it. I've got to tell them that, yeah, I've got to do that too. Which is really not what somebody wants to hear when they're grieving. You can't do that.

That's typically the person's response. We had a friend of ours that moved with her family. Her husband was in the service over there. Germany. We had five small kids. We lived there about six months, and he died at 41, Mark. And she was alone, and Morton got through with five kids, trying to figure out what to do next. My response to her was, there's no way I can understand what that's like. She said, that brings more comfort to me than somebody telling me about their experience.

And anyway, I think the things that we go through, it takes us to be able to empathize and be able to Now, including knowing when it's time not to open your mouth. Yeah. In other words, that prepares us for ministry, which may include, this isn't a good time to say something. Or, there may be a time to say what I had in mind, but that'll be three months from now, not here. Yeah. Bev? Do you remember the people that gave us a hard lesson? Say that again. Say that again. Do you remember the people Did you hear that?

Safe to cry? Let's talk about, we don't have a lot of time, but it's a valuable point. What does safe to cry mean? It means I'm not going to say, oh, I'm going to cry. Or, no, look, I made her cry. I hate crying. To cry is such a blessing. You know, God made our tears. A fan likes tears.

When you peel a lemon or something, and tears go down your face, in fact they proved that's just water. It's chemically different. When the tears, they had chemicals in them, soothing chemicals. Isn't that interesting? Tears are not identical under all circumstances. Somebody else had it in them? For a period, she never cried, but when she married me, she cried. Isn't that funny? Grief. Grief is a grief is a strange thing. It's it's timing can be a little awkward. Other thoughts, Norm? I'm just going to say it isn't related to the individual or the family of the Lord. Yeah.

Ruthie was in Montgomery, Pennsylvania. Well, when Jake died, I was in California. I was in Missouri. And for Dan, I took Elmer down to the Red House. I took Elmer on, and I think I did that. I didn't really go to the airport or whatever. experiences, and so forth.

And then, you talk about being quiet. All my co-workers are children. And it taught me a great deal, as to when to say something, when not to say something. Because, breathing in a bag, or having a surgery, you learn a whole new experience, you don't have to say, this is the worst for each other, and so forth. And it tells me to grow, but I can't do that.

My buzzer says we're out of time. Let's pray. Lord, this topic of grief is certainly one that can strike us deeply and strike us hard. And it's one of those times that comes forward and grabs us in ways and in moments that we don't expect. We don't program it out.

And yet we know that each one of those things, though unexpected to us, is known to you. And that you are sufficient for these things. That your grace is sufficient. And we thank you for that. We also just pray that we would learn of heart and mind about this thing called grieving and the other emotions and states of mind that get connected with it. We pray for wisdom and insight. In Jesus' name, Amen.