Biblical Counseling
Vern Peterman · Sep 28, 2008
Biblical Counseling, No. 26
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926112322570

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

This is part seven of our marriage and family counseling. We've got a two-page handout. Now, I have to give you a warning so that no one is shocked, okay? And that is these graphics that you see on these two pages will show up again in today's handout for church, unless we've messed up in the handouts, but I think they're there. The reason being we're going to be going over in detail something that will be presented very briefly and related to Jacob and Esau and Isaac and Rebecca. And what I'm going to be doing in the main service is showing these graphics briefly and then telling people if they want more detail, they'll listen to this class that we're going to have right now. So this will be where we go through the detail on it.

The two graphics that we have are intended to convey some, I think, very important truths about what is being learned and what is being taught in a family and what God's intent is. And we're also going to be talking about what happens if that isn't what you grew up with? What happens if partway through the experience you realize that things should have been different? Very important.

Okay, let's start here. The first page, similar to what you see started up here, points to the priority in family relationships. The first priority in relationships for each believer is that each believer's relationship to the Lord, no matter what their earthly role or marital status. Each believer's relationship with the Lord is first priority of all relationships, right? That's the point. What the Lord desires of us is that we walk in fellowship with independence upon Him. So we walk by means of the Spirit.

It's the way it's put there in Galatians 5.16.

Why is the relationship with the Lord first? Why not husband and wife? That's an important relationship. Why is the relationship with the Lord first? He is our life. Being married, having children, all those relationships in the family are important relationships, but the Lord is our life. We are in Him. He is in us. Those are key. and wonderful biblical truths. And we are saved by Him. Getting married is great, but as wonderful as that is, that doesn't save people. Even though some people wish it would. So, key important truth. Relationship with the Lord is first priority.

So far as relationships here on planet Earth, relationships Among human beings, first priority relationship is the marriage relationship. Okay? If you're married. Okay? First priority relationship is the marriage relationship. Why? Why would we say such a thing? Okay? Because it's the foundation of society. Okay? She says, now, that's what she just said I believe is true.

Increasingly, our culture is not believing that that's the case. Right? Marriage is looked upon as sort of a, you know, maybe later alternate in its different forms. So many in our society won't accept that. But the truth is, it is the foundation of our society and the ills that we are having are in great part linked to the lack of understanding of what Bonnie just said. Why else?

Yes? It was instituted by God. When? Pardon? In the very beginning, the world was not a week old when the Lord instituted marriage. So, yeah, instituted by God real early. Why else? For creation. For reproduction. Good. Why else? Marriage was designed as a reflection of our relationship with Christ. Ah, it is a living picture of the eternal Roman priority. Why else?

Have I blown any circuits out there? He said that it was not good for man to be alone. Not good for man to be alone. If you begin to look at it, other reasons start to crop up as well. It is a relationship that the Lord intends on the across language groups, across time. It wasn't like he said, okay, this is good from about year zero to about year 1,000 and then we're going to try something else. This was instituted for all time on the planet. There are, in fact, a number of reasons why that earthly relationship is first priority.

Okay, now the next thing, I need to change the slide to reflect it. Assuming I can. There we go. Now it responds. Okay, the next circle out is the children. Why? Why are the children the next circle out? So this would go on. So this would go on. You're talking about continuity of the human race and family. Okay, good. Why else? The parents have a responsibility for them. Okay, good.

And why else? Any other thoughts? Well, if you teach them to love the Lord, then they'll carry on his message to future generations. If you don't teach them to love the Lord and have a relationship with him. Okay. Alright. There's something else. You're quite correct.

There's something else in this picture too, and that is Ever seen a home situation where things are not really good with mom and dad? Things are coming apart at the seams or rough? Maybe you've seen that a little more personally than you'd prefer. What's the response of the children in that situation, especially if they're still at home? What's their response if things are going rough with mom and dad? Obey their parents. Pardon? Obey their parents. Okay. Obey their parents. But what is the response of those children when things are going rough between mom and dad?

Sometimes they blame themselves. Isn't that interesting? Sometimes they will blame themselves. And it's not really correct in probably the majority of the cases, but yeah, there can be a tendency to blame themselves. Good. What else? Insecurity. Yes. Insecurity. Fear. What's happening?

Nancy and I had a particular point in time where we had been living down in the San Francisco Bay Area. We were buying a house and the people who were going to be giving us the mortgage said, well, we want you on the job before we will fund your house. Well, that's a nice catch-22. We don't have a house to live in. The family was down in the Bay Area while I was in Carson City, you know, hours away, in a different state, on the job, living with somebody else up there, a friend of mine, while we were waiting for the house to close. Well, the thing kept dragging on and on. Basically a month went by, and the mortgage deal was not closing.

Well, what had happened during that period of time, our kids were all younger and at home. We had had several friends that were going through rough times in their marriage. In some cases, there was even a divorce happening. So, without our knowing it, our kids were beginning to think, I wonder if mom and dad are next. Just the prospect that that might be happening, because they didn't understand and it didn't dawn on us to explain it to them. It was very unsettling to them, very unsettling.

To bring a little lighter account, I heard one story where there's a mom and dad and they're sitting down on the couch and the daughter looks over at them, runs over and takes their hands and puts them together. The kids need that security to know that that marriage is sticking together and even more so to know that the parents are trusting the Lord. Key things for those kids. The kids need it. Now, but there's something else about this set of circles here. What happens if we eliminate that brown line between the husband and wife and the children and just kind of put them all in the same circle?

Is there a problem with that? Yes. What's the problem with that? They're not the same. One has discipline over the other. There is an authority difference between them. What else? the kids can end up running the show. Yeah, and so that's the turnover in authority. So there's an authority difference.

There's also responsibility for care, isn't there? There's a responsibility for care of different kinds. Everything from physical care to instruction in the Lord. Emotional care. And getting those things mixed, real serious problems. We're going to be seeing as we go into chapter 27 of Genesis. This is the life stages thing that we talked about. So what I'm talking about here is where the children are under the roof and they're being cared for.

Because what happens as the children move out, especially as they get married, the couple is establishing their own home and they're really back to that, aren't they? What happens if husband and wife are not seen as together, and along with that, if they're not seen real easy for the kids to actually have a part in pulling the parents apart. And that's exactly what we'll see in Genesis 27, where you actually have a favoritism, an opposite favoritism between the parents that ends up pulling the kids apart as well as the couple. Puts the whole family in distress. because there's a lack of recognition of the need for husband and wife, to be living out unity, and to be in a close relationship and fellowship with the Lord.

Yes, Norm? Kids learn at a very young age how to manipulate. And if you don't put down certain rules, just as Mike was saying, they'll start trying to run a rule of the roost. And in this case, the case is the husband has one child maybe that he sees over the other one and the wife sees another child and those two kids, they know that. It becomes pretty evident. And so it becomes a case But it's what mama says, just wait until your daddy gets home. Uh-huh. And take the key out and run. Okay. Because he knows daddy is on his side. Okay. Yeah.

See what can, his point is, what can easily happen if mom and dad are not together, and then walking in fellowship with the Lord together, real easy for the kids to begin manipulating and taking advantage sickly advantage of that situation. Yeah, it can happen young. It can happen really young. So that's why it's really important for us to get this picture, whether you use the circle illustration or not, to get this picture that what's absolutely essential is that the husband and wife realize their relationship with the Lord, their fellowship with the Lord and consequently with one another is ultimately important in the family relationships, set of family relationships.

The lack of that is the source of all sorts of trouble. All kinds of trouble. And as time goes on, it will tend to get worse. It'll tend to get worse. We'll notice here in this Genesis 27 passage we looked at this morning, it ultimately ends up getting so bad that Esau is planning to kill his brother. That bad.

And even though Jacob ends up getting the blessing that was intended for Esau, Jacob's got to pitch out of there and go basically hundreds of miles away so he doesn't get any blessings from being blessed by his father. He has to go hundreds of miles away just to avoid being killed. So the brothers are torn apart. And notice, what did this start with?

It wasn't that Rebecca and Isaac were at each other's throats to the point of death, but the problem tends to magnify in the family. It tends to get worse from generation to generation unless it's resolved. Let's take it for instance. Suppose that one parent places relationship with the child ahead of relationship with the spouse.

What happens? What does that turn into? You must be in shock. Repeat it one more time please. Suppose that one parent puts relationship with a child, even just one of the children, ahead of relationship with their own spouse. That kid is now more important and my sense of closeness to that kid is now more important and pleasing that kid is now more important than the relationship with and closeness with and pleasing my spouse.

What happens? The kid doesn't really know how to rule the rooms at that point. Yeah, what it is, it's an ultimate temptation for the sin nature of that kid to just rip the family apart. And you can do that pretty easily. Yeah, oh yeah. By the time that's taking place, boy, the opportunity for manipulation is just huge. It's really big.

That's why some families don't have another child ever do babysitting. No matter what their age, they may be old enough to be able to provide good direction and so forth, but there is always that temptation of the elder or the one that is looking over the younger to exploit the opportunity. You hear what Norma's saying, the elder sibling babysitting the younger one is an opportunity? Could be. But it could also be an opportunity to teach them how to love and care and respect their sibling. It could be.

I think the thing is what you have to do is look at the situation and evaluate what's wise, you know, considering the kids. But that's something certainly to watch out for. There may be circumstances where that is not a good idea. Yeah, if they're really close in age, I would let them, you know. Yeah, there may be other considerations too. It can be, it's something to be carefully considered and be looked at.

Just Norm's caution is, I've seen situations where, yeah, that's something you better take a close look at. Isn't that more or less net or... Just human nature for the older sibling to lead the younger and the younger to look to the older for... That I think is quite common.

And that can have some positive aspects. Where it becomes difficult is where the older sibling begins carrying out some things that aren't so honorable. Lock him in the closet. Yeah. And that might be the least of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think while those risks are there, the bigger risk is to the marriage. The bigger risk is to the marriage. As serious as the risks are between siblings, the biggest risk is to the marriage. Because again, what did we say? That's first priority. The marriage is, by God's intent, going to continue after those kids have left home. Let's hope there's something left of it at that point.

Yeah, Jeremy? The effects would not be much different than if one of the spouses was being unfaithful. Isn't it interesting, do you hear what he says? The effects would not be much different than if one of the spouses was being unfaithful. Why do you say that? I'm not challenging it, I'm just thinking.

Because it's, as we're learning in this class, one of the keys to a relationship is priority, making that relationship a priority. And then something else, whether it's another person, or even a child, whatever the context and the content of that relationship is, if the husband-wife relationship is not the priority, then there's going to be a lot of problems. Jealousy, resentment, all these other things are going to come out of it, and the focus is going to not be on Christ, which is what it should be. We bring up the issue here of family relationship, but is it not possible for one or the other spouse to have something else of any kind come in there and be first priority. The wife feels like she's second fiddle to the man's work as one that comes in there. The wife may feel second fiddle to the man's computer.

Anything else that steps in place there that she is seeing as, hey, this isn't ahead of me, in terms of earthly relationships. It can be a number of things, but a child can be one of those kinds of things that comes in first priority. And that's a problem, because the marriage must remain first priority in earthly relationships. Yeah, must. Question?

I was thinking, it's kind of like, you see someone, I'm going to take the dog out for a walk, and the dog's up there, and the person's kind of dragging along, and I'm thinking, who's walking who? And it's the same thing in today. It seems like the children, we're bombarded with, listen to the children. Well, who's teaching who in this? The kids obviously must be the ones that are more in authority and they know all the answers. So the parents kind of just paddle along after what the kids say and get things back.

I think the key thing, the balance that Scripture brings into play here is very important. And that is that it is easy, especially in our culture, to say, oh the kids are the ultimate importance. The reality is what Scripture calls for is it spells out the ministry of parents to the children. based on relationship with the Lord.

That's where it all starts with a positive relationship with the Lord. And that's what we see in these passages here. The wife is to submit to her husband as to the Lord. Children, obey your parents in the Lord. It's relationship with the Lord that defines all the other family relationships. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. It's the Lord, the Lord, the Lord that is the definition. The definition of all the family roles. If you lose perspective on relationship with the Lord, the rest of the family comes out of focus, including the problems that Wayne put his finger on. And that's where the kids are calling the shots.

It all goes back to, do you know the Lord? It goes back to, are you in fellowship with him? Do you understand your relationship with the Lord? And can you then take that and have that define what it means to be a husband, a wife, a father, a mother, and a child? So it's a relationship with the Lord.

That's why we have the diagram there to help keep that central in our thinking. Let's take a look at the next page. That's this one here. Because there's a lot of arrows and letters and everything, I'm going to simplify it a little bit. And let's step our way through it.

What you see here on the left hand side is that the man has an identity message to convey. What you see here is to the son. He is conveying in what he lives and what he says and what he does and doesn't do and say. The man is conveying what it means to be a man. What's a man? So the man in the household is sending a message. Partly by what he lives, partly by what he says. Next thing, he is also conveying what is a husband like? What does a husband look like? The man is also conveying what does a father look like?

What does a father do? How does a father behave? What does a father not do? See? And then the next one is even how does a father behave as an adult son? Does the son under the roof see his father as an adult son? relating to that younger son's grandparents. How do you treat older parents? See, the son's learning that, isn't he? The son's learning that.

I think that's one reason why Paul in Ephesians 6 repeats the promise out of the Ten Commandments. Honor your father and mother so that you will live long in the land. Why? because that pattern of care for the older generation, when they need the care, that gets passed along, doesn't it? That gets passed along. How do you treat those older parents?

So there's that set of lessons, the role of a man, husband, father, and adult son. There's something else, and that father is conveying to his son value and worth. I'm not talking about just fleshly self-esteem. I'm talking about having a sense of worth as a being that is created by God. Having a sense of worth particularly as a believer who is chosen by the Father. having a sense of value and worth. The father has a particular role of conveying value and worth to his children, but in this case, particularly sons. He conveys the same role, that is, the role of the male, the same identity. Let's look at the next one. Here's the woman, wife, mother, and adult daughter. She is conveying to her daughter. What is a woman? What is maleness versus femaleness, and particularly, what's femaleness? What's that like? She is conveying to her daughter, what's it like to be a wife?

What does that look like? Suppose she never says anything to her daughter about what does that look like? What happens? Nothing? The daughter is going to be observing that. Okay, yeah. In other words, if it isn't talked about, there will still be an observed lesson, an observed message, won't there be? Is that sufficient? Should parents rely on just what's observed? I'm seeing a head shake.

No, why not? that doesn't really confirm it to the child. It conveys a message, but it doesn't confirm a message. It may also not clarify things. It won't explain why certain things are done, which over time begins to have an increasing importance. So, the other thing is, what we live out, we certainly teach by. but what we communicate emphasizes. What we communicate by talking about it emphasizes the truth.

What's it like to be a mother? The daughter is learning that from her mother. What's it like to be an adult daughter? How does this adult show honor for parents, for older parents. There is, similar to the father and husband, a communication of the identity and roles here, relationship. There is also a cross-teaching. The mother, as she lives out being a woman, a wife, mother, and adult daughter is actually teaching the son about what those things are as a complementary relationship. He begins to see, oh, that's what a mother looks like. That's what it looks like for a mother to live that out. That's what it looks like for a wife. That's what, in some sense, that's what a wife's supposed to be.

And so there's a complementary role. The same thing, the man, husband, father, conveys a complementary role to the daughter. What's the value of conveying that complementary role? Is that just sort of supplemental information? How does that help? I would think it would help them learn how to pick the proper kind of spouse.

Ah, okay. It helps in learning how to pick a spouse Because especially if you see a good example, there's something that you can work with and say, OK, I want someone like that. Likewise, having a deficiency there may make someone prone to pick someone with the same deficiency. And you've probably seen that instance as well.

So the lessons learned here are ones that are carried on into the next generation, aren't they? And the next generation is learning all these lessons about what's it like to be a man, a woman, a husband, wife, father, mother. All those things are being conveyed. And there's also something else here.

I put an extra communication of value and worth from the father. and that is that it is something that seems to crop up in scripture and we will see it here in this morning's passage in Genesis and other places we can see it as well where the father has a particular role in conveying value and worth to both children. Why would that be? Why would the father have a particular role in conveying value and worth? to the children of the family. He is the head and the symbol of God the Father. He is the one who is the spiritual head of the home. Notice that it is God the Father.

Remember Ephesians 1.3.

He has blessed us with every spiritual blessing. He considers that we are of value in Christ to do so. Okay? Yeah, that's one of the things we'll see in these passages in Genesis when we're not done. The blessing of the Father, extremely important in subsequent generations. That was just kind of built into the mindset. But even with daughters, even with daughters can be extremely important for that to get communicated.

Nancy and I, of course, communicate and counsel with a number of different couples. We've been doing so for almost 20 years. And I can recall one couple. She doesn't go here, so you don't know her. The wife, after we said this, that the father particularly communicates value. And she said, that is exactly true. My father didn't do that, and I feel worthless all the time. So real important truth. We got one very important topic to cover, and it's a good thing we have some time left to do so.

What happens if, in a couple of situations, what happens if you are partway through raising kids and you realize, hey, this isn't happening the way it's supposed to. I've not been doing something right in a major way here. I've been erring. What happens if you grew up in a home where you'd say, boy, there's all kinds of deficiencies in what we just talked about?

Are you just done? Is your goose cooked? Or what? What's the situation? If you grew up in a home where what we just talked about here, just an awful lot of it wasn't happening or it was happening real wrong. Or, if you yourself are in a parenting situation and halfway through you decide, uh-oh, I've been blown. What's left?

What's next? You have a direct line to that center circle. Ah. See, here's the thing. It is not a matter of everything's fixed in place, your goose is cooked, you're done. I can testify to that directly. Because I've told this class before, Nancy and I were married for 15 years. I was a beast. And I sat down with Nancy. And I sat down with each of the kids. Randy was about 13.

And I said, I have been a terrible example of a husband or a father to you. And I apologize about that. And I want to learn how to do it differently. It is possible to change it. I think Randy's forgiven me. Both my parents are Christians. My dad however was just gone. So what did I do? I tried to copy him.

I've heard during my high school years, my dad moved me for all my high school years, all four years, up to this farm up in Northern California. But we were way out in the boonies, two miles off the nearest paved road. We used to have a 16 party phone line. That was moving out of what was early Silicon Valley. And my dad was still vice president and general manager of a division of Dictaphone Corporation down in the Bay Area. So he'd come up on the weekends. Other than that, basically, I'm going to go to school and also run the farm. Milk the cows twice a day and keep the chickens happy.

So there was just lots of real busyness. Of course, what that tells me is, boy, you better get busy. So lots of stuff to do on the farm. It's a small high school, so I did everything at the high school. I was a class officer for three years, and student body vice president, and president of the California Scholarship Federation, and football and track, and annual editor, and all kinds of things. Do lots of busy things. Keep really busy.

And then Nancy and I get married, and of course, I've got to get this degree, and I've got to get that one, and I've got to work 60 hours a week, and I've got to take over this corporation and fend off that other one. Norm. Were you doing this so you didn't have to face reality? There's a good point. It's really strange. Yeah, here I am aggressively taking things on. Or being very responsible for everything but my family. The picture of Becky climbing all over my shoulders while I'm studying for my MBA. Working on my MBA at a very fast clip while I'm working 60 to 80 hours a week. So, and I remember one time Nancy stopped me in the hallway and said she was struggling with all this. I said, I don't know what your problem is. Go get some counseling. I'm too busy. And so, you know, you look at that. Can the Lord redeem me? Yeah. But it is a matter of saying, okay, if I haven't had the background in the past where I've been doing it wrong, How does that get changed? How does it become different? How do I do something different than what my parents did? How do I?

Yes, Jeremy. Well, I don't think it's what the world says, but you have to come to grips with all this stuff and have this breakthrough with all these past relations. I don't think that's it at all. I think it's simply understanding what Christ has done for you and what Christ says about, what the Bible says about what he's provided for you. And I guess the key is restoring and strengthening that relationship with Christ. And as that happens, the other things are going to fall out. But it's getting back to Christ and understanding what he's done for you. The Lord has in fact revealed what we need in his work.

What you see here presented are things from the pages of scripture. You can imagine, here's Paul going into some pagan environment, and the homes are all messed up. The homes are all messed up. The fathers were quite often otherwise occupied outside of the home.

And being faithful to the wife, not even encouraged. And for the husband to just be too busy with other things was just the normal. And for the husband to satisfy his desires with all sorts of other alternatives was the typical thing. And for him to, for example, spend time trying to communicate value to his daughter, last thing on his plate. Caring for the spiritual well-being of the family.

Whoever heard of such a thing? So exactly the things that we have in Scripture, precisely, precisely what we need to rebuild, to put back what didn't happen if we have a deficiency in our own home situation, in our own background. Or if we find that we've been blowing it. God's Word can help us to build and understand what wasn't there before. That's not all. What other resources do we have available to us to help rebuild what wasn't there?

We have God's Word, and what else? The body of Christ. We have the body of Christ. That's exactly what this class is about, isn't it? So here this thing has come full circle. I've been telling you, hey, it's been a decade and a half doing it really, really wrong. And then I turn around and I look at it and say, oh, God's Word has the answers. Well, there must be other people that need to hear that, too. There's one other thing.

Who involves you? Who indwells you? The Holy Spirit indwells you. Is the Holy Spirit going to lead you in a direction that's like we described here this morning? Yeah. So you think about it. We have God's written word. We have the living word. May the word of Christ dwell in you richly. We have the ministry of the Holy Spirit and we have the body of Christ, which is an instrument of the Holy Spirit. all to help build things up in the body of Christ.

Frankly, the entire church body in many of these Gentile cities, there was no family that started off with anything that was anything close to healthy. It was all messed up. And yet, he was able to lay out, Paul was able to lay out truths here in these pagan cities where every family was messed up. Bar none. Every family was messed up.

Why? He gave them the Word of God. They had the Holy Spirit. They had the body of Christ to help them. And what are some of the ways that the body of Christ has an involvement in kind of rebuilding families, rebuilding backgrounds that weren't there?

Yeah. You know, understanding through Christian counseling? Yeah. Basically, counsel is one of those ways. Good. And what else? Through prayer. Through prayer. Because I can say, hey, I'm really struggling with this thing. Can you pray with me? Yeah. Prayer. We can even pray for our own situation. Lord, I don't understand this. Help me to understand.

Yeah. Good. What else? spiritual gifts and there's various inputs that way. Good. What else? How about example? Oh, that's how it's done. Example within the body of Christ. Someone else who is learning. Oh, I see. And that's one reason to spend time with one another outside of just, okay, we've got a church service and it gets out at such and such time, see you later. But there's other opportunities to learn by example. Oh, that's how that happens. That's how that happens.

So here's what's neat. This is grace. This is grace. Instead of saying, well, my family background is horrible. I'm just shot. I've got no chance. We're just done. We're destined for a mess. Instead of that perspective, we can look at it and say, no, the Lord is gracious.

And the Lord has provided the resources to make a marriage, to make a family, where there is no human earthly background. And to make it something really good. So the Lord has provided the ability to rebuild, to build in where that wasn't there. And that's one thing that Nancy and I enjoy doing, we'll sit down with a couple in premarital counseling, marriage counseling, Because some of them will come from backgrounds we look at and say, well, I didn't have a good example. It's okay. It's alright, because we have God's grace and that's plenty sufficient. In fact, grace is the reigning principle. That's wonderful.

Donna? I was just going to comment that the reverse is also true on that. You know, if you're raised in a Christian home with this in effect, you think that's the norm, and speaking personally, you go out into the world and start interacting And at some point you go home and say, wow, thank you. Yeah. There's an appreciation. Yes, you're going to be thankful for what you do have. Yeah, yeah.

And I think there may be even both of those. I look at my home and yeah, my dad was gone just a lot. On the other hand, it could have been far worse. My parents are still around and have been Married now to see the anniversary this last week. Been married now for 62 years. You know, it's been a while. So, you know, that's something to be thankful for.

And also, my dad realized that he was gone and actually apologized for being gone. It doesn't, you know, make him there for those times, but that also does some good too. that he could come to a place, even after I was grown, of saying, I'm sorry I wasn't there for you.

Yeah. Kind of does the greatest good in a sense, right? Because it shows you one of the major characteristics of a godly father, mother, whatever, is someone who continues to look at Jesus and go, wow, I was wrong about that, I apologize. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's one of the bigger lessons to learn. It's great to learn this, but it's fantastic look to the word, we get to kneel in Christ and turn away from our flesh and turn away from our worldly ideas. That seems to be one of the most important lessons that you can teach your kids. You bring up a good point.

Randy has told me that more than once. He said, because you apologize, that helped me to be able to realize things and to turn a corner in my own, you know, being a husband and being a father. So that's correct. You're quite correct. That lesson learned teaches and makes it easier for the ones who receive the apology to turn that around and live that out in their lives. Huge, huge healing. Other thoughts? Comments? Yes.

Not having these relationships right as the basis for why we have so much homosexuality and gender confusion. Actually, you put your finger on a good point. There are lots of different possible implications and one of the implications of having these relationships out of whack can be a proneness towards gender confusion based on these things not being fully biblical. The classical case for a homosexual, it's not universal, but classical case is a dominant mother-passive father combination. And so, it doesn't explain everything, because you've still got the sin nature issue there, and people make their choices.

But there is a proneness for that to be the case. And that's why we bring this up. This is what we're aiming for biblically. And an understanding of it is really important. But the implications could be that. It could be a whole bunch of other things.

I mean, we've got lots of crazy things happening in our culture. And you brought up the point that it's the basis for our culture is basically putting the marriage first. And our culture has abandoned that principle by and large. Substantially abandoned that principle. by having gay marriage and basically allowing and accommodating all these other arrangements. There is a price to be paid for looking at things that way. Our culture continues to be that price.

One of the things I mentioned several weeks back is that the shacking up together before getting married. A recent poll showed among young people that at least 60% thought that was a wise move When the statistics that we study show that it's a very unwise move, it increases the chance of not only the subsequent marriage breaking up, but increases the chance for depression, and I'm talking about a four times multiple, and especially among the women. for something outside of what's biblical, the women pay the highest price. And I'm not talking about 20 or 30 or 40 percent higher, I'm talking about huge multitudes higher. The women pay the price.

Feminism, when Nancy and I were back in college, was pushing all this liberation and all this, but this is what it all is. And let's let the woman, you know, end up paying the price for this irresponsibility. It's a lousy, unfounded message. But it's, again, one of the consequences of not getting everything straight here. Okay, we've run out of time.

And I'm just preparing you. You're going to hear a little bit about this in the message. But I'll tell people to listen in on this class in order to get better insights. Lord, as we look at this very important topic, we thank you for revealing what is important, what is true, what's valuable, and thank you that you have, by your mercy and grace, made grace the reigning principle that we, in our marriages, in our homes, in our families, can breathe that atmosphere of grace as grace reigns. up until and including the very day we see you face-to-face. We thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.