Israel: The Soul and the Nation

Well today we start in chapter 11 and chapter 11 is going to kind of continue on focused on Israel and we're going to kind of see how it ties back into 9 and 10 and actually it kind of starts out I'm going to cover the first 10 verses I have the first 6 up here and then we'll cover the last 7 through 10 at the end of this but basically one of the things that you're hit with immediately when you come into chapter 11 is Has Israel been rejected?

I say then, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be, for I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew, or do you not know what the scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? They have killed your prophets. They have torn down your altars. And I alone am left. And they are seeking my life. But what is the divine response to him? I have kept for myself 7,000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

In the same way, then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works. Otherwise, grace is no longer grace. Thank you. Okay, so actually it's going to start off, and we'll just go to the next slide.

It starts off, I say then, has God not rejected his people? Has he? So it starts off kind of with a question that demands an answer. It almost says, has God not rejected his people? Well, the response is that he's looking for, may it never be. God forbid, He has not rejected His people.

Paul is going to go on to flesh that out, to expand that, to show that God has not rejected His people, even though it seems like there are some severe things that have come upon the nation of Israel, and we're going to see this idea that they're stumbling.

They've stumbled. Actually, that will be next week. But things happen to Israel that are not a pleasant thing. It says God has hardened them. Some hard things. Wow, these are difficult things. Is that justified that God should take a people, his own peculiar people, and harden them? Is that really justified? So we're going to kind of work through that.

So the first thing is that this word rejected is the idea to thrust away to, and because of the middle voice, it's aorist, which is a past point fact, indicative mood, it's reality. The middle kind of focuses on self, to thrust away from oneself. So I'd like to look at a couple of verses here in Acts. Let's turn to Acts. The first one is in Acts 7. And hopefully these kind of expand on the meaning of this idea of rejection, to thrust away. And the question is, is this what God has done? as he really thrust away from himself the nation of Israel. So can I get someone to read Acts chapter 7 and verse 26 and 27, just for context.

And on the following day he appeared to them as they were fighting together, and he tried to reconcile them in peace, saying, Men, you are brethren, why do you injure one another? For the one who was injuring his neighbor pushed him away, saying, Who made you a ruler and judge over us? So this is in the context of talking about Moses. And the word here is pushed him away. So is God pushing away Israel?

And we have the answer. Actually, let's look at the other one before I get too excited here. Let's look at Acts 13. and verse 46. Can I get a volunteer for that one? Just verse 46. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said it was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life. Behold, we are returning to the Gentiles. It's a little bit hard to see it here, but that word repudiated, I believe, its root form is the idea of rejection. So this is another usage of that word.

Paul's answer to that, in speaking for God here, is God has not rejected or thrust away from himself his people, has he? And Paul says, may it never be. God forbid. So, in looking at this verse, do you see something in the last part of that verse that Paul kind of gives a reason for why God is not thrust away?

Israel? This is not a real hard one. Go ahead, Randy. Salvation is equally available to the Israelites. Alright, that's good. It's kind of hidden in here, and we're going to get into it a little bit more, but he basically says, this is a personal thing, for I too am an Israelite, and I found favor, and I'm an Israelite, if God's rejected Israel, then He's rejected me, and he says that wasn't the case. I found favor, and we're going to look a little bit at that, but this is a personal testimony. If God's rejected Israel, I'm a living example that he did not. You have to read that a few times to pick up on that, but I believe Paul is using himself as an example.

In Philippians, it talks about... This is Paul's resume. There's no question that he's an Israelite. He's an Israelite of Israelites. Actually, Verne's been going through this in Galatians. This is part of Paul's resume. This is Philippians 3, starting in verse 4.

Although I myself might have confidence in the flesh, if anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more. circumcised the eighth day, the nation of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, as the law of Pharisee, as to zeal, a persecutor of the church, as to righteousness, which is in the law, found blameless. So, he is an Israelite of Israelites, and he's zealous, like we talked about the last time, a couple of weeks ago, He's zealous. The Jews were zealous. He was zealous for the Lord. But he was zealous with the wrong focus. But he found favor. So God hasn't abandoned, Paul says, and I'm a personal testimony to that.

And then in Ephesians there, it talks about, let's see, about Ephesians. I'll get someone to read that one. Ephesians 3, verse 8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ. Right. So he counts himself as the least, but this wonderful grace was given. Grace was available.

The message was available to Israel. But they didn't want it. They wanted their own righteousness. We're going to see that over... I want my righteousness. I want my feast, my festival. I want my deal. I want all this... I want to be... way I want it to be, not the way you want it to be, Lord. Okay, so verse 2.

So this kind of flips it around and he says, God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. And this word foreknew is pro-gnosco, to know before. Pro is before, gnosco is to know. And it's used in scripture both of divine knowledge and also of human knowledge.

And actually I'm just going to kind of focus on divine knowledge for this go-around. It's spoken of Christ being foreknown and 1 Peter. Can I get a volunteer for that one? Get you guys' fingers awake here. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, and has appeared in these last times for the sake of you." So basically this is speaking of Christ. Christ was foreknown. One of God's character, His very character, He has the ability to foreknow. So it speaks of Christ, He was foreknown. It also talks about for knowledge in terms of the believer.

Romans 8.29 says, For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, that he might become the firstborn among many brethren. So foreknowledge, foreknowledge of God's creation. He foreknows his son. He foreknows the believers. And now in this verse, we talk about the fact that... So the question comes up, what does he mean here by God foreknowing Israel?

So what do you think? Is it a little bit different in this case? Is it exactly the same thing? And I would say it's not easy. This is one that could have a couple of possibilities here. Maybe for starters, let's look at Amos here for a second. Go ahead. I have a thought.

This is the word which the Lord has spoken against you, sons of Israel, against the entire family which you brought up from the land of Egypt. You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth. For therefore, I will punish you for all your If you look at that, I think there's a footnote in that word that says it has that idea of to know.

So God, in choosing, in fact in God's right, choosing and foreknowing are almost intertwined. So God, I mean, He knows all hearts. He knows all of Israel. So maybe from the easiest approach would be He foreknows Israel just like He foreknows a person who will believe and who will not believe. He knows the ones that responded to his message in the nation of Israel and the ones who did not.

But it might be an aspect that in this verse I wondered about because it's going to follow now we're going to talk about this remnant here that's going to follow just right after this and I wonder if he was referring to that possibly because it says or do you not know he follows this statement with or do you not know and he talks about the remnant So I thought, well, maybe there's a meaning in terms of just knowing about the remnant and what happened with the remnant historically. So I couldn't really distinguish or sort that out. I don't know if you have thoughts on that. So it could be that there's maybe a context here where it could talk about foreknowing with Elijah here. Because he gives that as an example right after that. I'm sorry, Randy. Go ahead.

Well, I think this just elaborates on the character of God's knowledge, the complete nature of his omniscience. It has to reflect that sort of relationship of knowing Israel as well as it would with us, because that's how God knows us. Right. That's his very character. Yeah. Foreknowledge is God's very character. You can't separate that from who He is. He has that. And He knows whether it's Israel, His Son, the Church, or whatever. That's part of who God is.

Right. Good. Okay. So now we're going to go into this thing where Elijah pleads with God. And it's really interesting. I want to go through it. It's an interesting... So let's just go and look at the... And this is an excerpt from 1 Kings 19. And this is a neat passage. You read this passage for a variety of different reasons. And it's always... very instructive to go through this passage.

And it has a lot more than what we're going to, you know, more expansive than what, but we're going to pick out the parts that apply here. So maybe we can divide this up if you don't want to. Let's see. If I get someone to read maybe half of it, maybe down to 13 or so, 9 through 13, and then somebody volunteer to read the other half. I know. I could choose some people. Imani, can I choose you again? I chose you before, right?

Then he came there to a cave and lodged there, and behold, the Lord of the Lord came to him and said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah? And he said, I have been very zealous for the Lord, the God of hosts, for the sons of Israel. For the sons of Israel have forsaken my covenant, torn down my altars, thy altars and kill thy prophets with the sword and I alone am left and they seek my life to take it away.

So he said, go forth and stand on the mountain before the Lord and behold the Lord was passing by and a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the Lord. But the Lord was not in the wind and after the wind an earthquake but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire a sound of a gentle blowing. And it came about when Elijah heard it that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, What are you doing here, Elijah? Um, I don't know. Doris, would you like to read the rest of 14 through 18?

And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts, because the children of Israel have forsaken their covenant, thrown down their coffers, and slain their prophets with the sword. And I, even I, only am left, and they seek my life to take it away. And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus. and when thou comest anoint Hazel to be king over Syria, and Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel, and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-Nephola shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. And it shall come to pass that him that escapeth the sword of Hazel shall Jehu slay, and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.

Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have now bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. Thanks, Doris. Okay, so, you know, Elijah here, I kind of, Elijah's summary, not a real great picture. God's spokesman, he says, here's the situation, Lord, here's what it is, it's not looking good. Your spokesmen are dead. Your place of worships are gone. I'm the last one, and I soon will be dead. So he's saying, hey, I'm it. And he says it twice. If you notice that, he says that twice. He repeats it twice. He says, things are really bad.

So one of the questions is here, what was Elijah's focus here? Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's really neat how the Lord, you know, He doesn't get rattled here. He just says, here's what I want you to do. You go do this and you go do that. And oh, by the way, there are 7,000 other ones out there. Just in case you were wondering. Go ahead.

So often in Scripture, supposedly godly people forget that God is the God of all power. You think of Abraham who says, oh no, Sarah and I are awfully old. And Zacharias says, no, Elizabeth and I couldn't possibly have a baby. Forget for that moment that God can do anything.

That's right. And I think this is a really tremendous example of how God says, hey, you're not the only one. I have 7,000. You think it's all over with. It's all done. But no, I know what I'm doing. And so God basically says that He says, I have capital, the word reserved for Myself. And that's kind of a term to reserve. It's a personal thing. Those are 7,000 that He's reserved. He knows what He's doing. He's not taken by surprise. We don't have to go to that verse this time. I was asking, can we do the same thing? Can we be Elijah? Can we wind up in that position too. And we do. And we do.

I was kind of thinking about, you know, you look at the world situation and you say, boy, things, terrorists are going wild, and who knows what's going to happen with the presidency, and that's just on the world scene. Personally, well, let's see, I'm here at Holly Hills, and wow, fabulous teaching, but there's no place else. Well, really?

And that gives us great comfort. I mean, I'm saying that with great comfort. Hey, we think sometimes, where else is the wonderful truth being taught? And I'm trusting the Lord just that if he said there's 7,000, I don't know, maybe there's 7,000 other places in this world that these wonderful truths are being taught about our identification with Christ. So, I mean, it's encouragement that we see that God encouraged Elijah and we can be encouraged by that too. So, it kind of struck me.

You know, about 10 years ago I wrote a letter to Miles and the very same thing. I said, boy, I really appreciate you. your literature, some of your articles, and your poemics, and your books. And I said, boy, but where are other people that I can fellowship with than these truths? And you know what? He wrote me back with a two-line statement. He said, just remember, the Lord has his reserve 7,000. Interesting. Excellent. Well, that's exactly what I thought about. Exactly what he wrote back.

I mean, we kind of think We kind of think, wow, we can't see the big picture. We just can't see it. And the Lord actually doesn't necessarily want us to see it. He wants us to trust Him. To trust and walk with Him by faith. Actually, it will be nice.

I listen to talk radio more than I probably should, but after a while I say, it will be nice when all the voices are stilled. All of man's opinion is stilled. silenced. It's gone. No more opinion by man. I want to hear God's opinion. And we have God's opinion. And we know how it's going to work out. But it gets tiresome to hear man's opinion about everything. Over and over and over and over again. I still listen. Go ahead. Along that line, I was listening, I think, Friday.

He's a capitalist, and I kind of appreciate that, and I don't like his other lawyer, but he was saying, he believed that God used evolution to create, rather than creation, I looked out at our beautiful Colorado Blue Spruce, and I just wondered how long it took to get Blue Spruce to evolve. Right, absolutely.

I think often we think of difficulties and trials as being something that we don't want, but Scripture has exactly the opposite view. It says, don't be surprised when all kinds of trials and tribulations come into your life. They come actually for your benefit. But grabbing hold of that and seeing that is not an easy thing. I mean, you can say it, and you can read the words, but trusting that and believing that is a different story. But that's what the Lord wants us to do. He wants us to trust Him and believe it. I miss enough radio, I miss enough news. After a while, I turn it off.

Is that right? Wow. Wow. Wow. Right. Right. Wow. Yeah. I saw something. I look at the Fox News website a lot. I mean, it comes up. I see a little picture or something. I thought, what's that? And I didn't buy it. Yeah. Yeah. OK. All right. Alright, so we definitely can be where Elijah is at.

It was kind of neat in that section, God kind of showed, here's God's character. All these things happen, but he wasn't in any one of his things in creation. He's not the wind or whatever it is. He's the creator of all that. So, anyway. Alright, so the next verse says, in the same way, kind of building on that, in the same way, There has also come to be, at the present time, a remnant according to God's gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works. Otherwise, grace is no longer grace. So actually, the verb there is, has also come to be, that's the English rendering, but it's has come to be, or it's ginome, to become or to come into a new state of being.

And what's interesting is in the perfect tense, and we're going to kind of try to expand on that a little bit. So he says, in the same way, there has also come to be a remnant at the present time. So we're going to kind of focus on that. And the word remnant is this idea of that which is left. I was going to say leave behind, but I'm not sure. It's a remaining part, I guess, is the best way to look at it. That which is left, a remaining part.

So what I did here, I took that and took the verb tense here as perfect indicative active. Remember, perfect tense is a past completed action with abiding results up into the present. So I tried to do my expanded or literal interpretation. A remnant came into being in the past times. I think maybe referring back to the seventh, there has been a remnant. There's always been a remnant in Israel. With the result that there remains a remnant up into the present time.

And actually, if you look carefully there, the word God is actually according gracious choice, or may better, a choice of grace. So part of God's gracious character is a choice, which is kind of interesting. A choice of grace, which I thought was kind of interesting. God choosing is within the realm of grace. And he does that perfectly. And then it says here, This is by grace, unmerited favor, not on the basis of work. So God, by His gracious choice, has a remnant in place to glorify Him. We are going to go over to Hal's place. There are some notes that Hal produced back in 1978 on the Romans. I made opportunity to take advantage of some of those. There is a summary that he did on verses 1-6. I would like to present that.

God has not cast away Israel. Paul's argument, and we have kind of seen this, Paul was an Israelite and he was living proof. That was point one. Point two, There has always been a remnant in the nation of Israel. And then point three, there remains a remnant at the present time, according to God's grace. So that's verses one through six.

Any other thoughts before we move on to the next section? I just had a question. There's a remnant at the present time. I think that's always kind of a confusing thing, because we're not talking about people who believe in Christ, are we? Well, they're part of the church, yeah. Actually, that's a good point. I thought about that. You guys have some thoughts on that? Go ahead, Randy.

There has to be a remnant of righteous Jews to fulfill that which is prophesied in Romans. They are righteous Jews, but not necessarily Jews that believe in that, because that seems to be a literal interpretation of that passage, which fulfills Old Testament prophecy and revelation, even though it is not hanging for the gospel. The concept of the remnant is that they are preserved in standing. It's a fulfillment.

I don't know. That's the way I was taught in seminary. I'm not going to call it right, but I'm going to call it right. Okay. They're not only Jews, but they're Jews of every tribe. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Down to the twelve tribes. I don't know. Twelve, what would be the ten? Yeah, I don't know.

What about the fact that Paul uses himself as an illustration? Yeah. I know, I know, and that's a problem I have. I hear what you're saying, and I've been down that path too, but boy, it doesn't seem like it hangs together. Especially with Paul, you have a good point.

It seems like the remnant has to be a believer in Christ. But then you have the problem, why aren't they part of the Church? And there are many passages that talk about it. There's no difference between Jew and... So I'm not sure I can give you a good answer. I'm not sure that what Hal's point is on there is what you're saying, that correlation there.

Because Paul's statement here is that God has still preserved a remnant. He's referring to the Old Testament remnant. He's not talking about believing Jews at this point in time. Well, he says up into the present time, and that was the whole point of that. perfect tense, right? It started in the past, at least when Paul was speaking, at the time he wrote scripture, right? Yeah, but he's not referring to believers, he's saying God's faithfulness preserves the remnant because he's faithful to Israel and he's not rejecting Israel.

They're parallel points, they're not contradictory, if that makes sense. We could probably spend a lot of time discussing this. Yeah, I don't know. Aren't these Jews also after the rapture? The Church is gone, isn't it? Yeah, that's what I'm saying with the... Yeah, well, if you get into the Millennial Kingdom after the Church is taken out, then you're kind of back to the, you know, it's back to more like it was in the Old Testament time. It's that kind of, you know, it's not, the Church age has ended and then you have the the Tribulation Period and the Millennial Kingdom, which is not the same dispensation as you had in the Church Age. I didn't come to any conclusion. I'm still holding out that the remnant are those just like Abraham. They trusted in Christ's coming. It was by faith. Faith is the same Old Testament and New Testament. It's always in Christ.

So, I don't know. I thought about it and said, I don't want to go there. Well, actually, I teach next week, so let me think about it. I wasn't expecting an answer next week. Let me think about it a little bit, and I'll give you my... I appreciate your comments. They were good comments. Let's move on to the next part. Actually, it's somewhat along that line of what we're going to talk about here. Maybe I'll give a little more information on that. What is Israel's state today? says, What then? What Israel is seeking it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

Just as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not, ears to hear not, down to this very day. And David says, Let their table become a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a retribution to them, let their eyes be darkened to see not, and bend their backs forever. So, it doesn't sound too good for Israel, right? So, the first part of verse 7 is actually kind of a review of parts of 9 and 10.

What then? What is Israel seeking what Israel is seeking, it has not obtained. So, here's what they were seeking. I kind of used the verses. I'll restate it again. So, the first thing we found back in 931 was that Israel was pursuing a law of righteousness, but they did not arrive at that.

They wanted a law. They wanted a law to be their governing principle. But they did not arrive at righteousness. And the reason they didn't is because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. And they stumbled over the stumbling stone. That's going to be the next part. But they didn't pursue a relationship by God, by faith.

And that's the way man comes to God, by faith. They pursue it through works. I'm going to do these things to show that I'm righteous. 33 says, just as it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion, a stone of stumbling, a rock of offense, and he who believes in me will not be disappointed. So they stumbled over Christ. Christ is the stumbling stone, the rock of offense. So they stumbled over Christ.

Then, as we move into chapter 10, we found, for not knowing about God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. I covered that verse back several weeks ago. That's the idea that they were ignorant. They didn't know about God's righteousness. They were ignorant of God's righteousness. Because their thought process was, the way to righteousness is by, I'm going to be good and righteous, because I can keep these rules really good. Even though they had to realize they couldn't do it, but I don't know.

They fooled themselves. And they sought to establish their own righteousness. And that was the idea that they wanted to stand up their own, that they had their own system, their own system. They made up a system of very elaborate laws and rules that they could keep.

As Jim covered, we start in chapter 10 of Romans. There's a wonderful process. Let's just turn to Romans 10 for a second. It's good to read it in context because, as Jim pointed out, you need to see the flow. Because belief is central to our relationship. Belief or faith is central. So let's just look at that for a second.

So I'm just going to read starting in verse 10 and kind of read down through 15. Let's go back to verse 12. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him. For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

So now he's going to ask all these questions about how do we get there. How shall they call upon Him whom they have not believed? How shall they believe in whom they have not heard? How shall they hear without a preacher? How shall they preach unless they are sent?

Just as it is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings. So there's a process of the word being preached, then hearing it, then believing it, and then calling upon the Lord. And it's all, you need to look at that in totality. You really can't separate that. But faith comes by hearing. Let's go a little further. So faith comes by hearing. But then the bottom line in terms of Israel is verse 21.

But as for Israel, he says, all the day long I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people. So it wasn't that the Lord didn't interact with these people, didn't show them over and over and over again. He did. But they really didn't want that. They didn't want their own system, their own righteousness. Verse 7, the first part is saying, what then, what is Israel seeking? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained. So they sought righteousness, but they did not obtain it, because they went down the wrong path.

So now we come to an interesting section here. But those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened. So what, I've already kind of said it, so just for clarification, What does it refer to? What was Israel seeking? They were seeking righteousness, but those But those who were chosen obtained it, and if you go back, it's righteousness. They obtained righteousness, and the rest were hardened. So there are two categories of Israelites.

Those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened. So now we're going to get into the classic thing here which drives theologians crazy. Not only theologians, But those who were chosen obtained it. Let me just go on and set the rest of it here. And the rest were hardened. So we got two statements. Those who were chosen obtained it.

So it's a fact, a past point fact. And the act that God is choosing God has chosen, God is choosing. And on the flip side of that, God hardens. And the passive voice means that the people that were hardened received that they were hardened by God. So you have some difficult things here.

You say, well, one thing I didn't put down. And it's good to remember that, and this is a thing that you see come across many times in scripture, you see that, well, Did God's choosing, is that causative? Did that cause him to believe? Say, well, I was chosen, therefore I have to believe.

Well, no, it doesn't work that way. It says that every person that has trusted him, has exercised faith, is by his very nature chosen. And it seems, in the short circuit, your mind goes bonkers. You say, well, how can that be? an impossible argument.

But God says, just like we're children of God, we're joint heirs, all the wonderful things that we have are the resume of the believer. One of the resumes of the believer, one of the points in the resume is that we're chosen. So you can't separate chosen, you can't pull it out and say, okay, I was chosen and therefore I had to believe. Otherwise you have God not being God. Chosen is a characteristic, I believe it applies to Israel too. He chose Absolutely right, they were chosen, but they believed, Abraham believed, and then he was said to be chosen.

Okay, so that's one not-so-easy point. And the second point is... My husband is going to ask if I tip my hat. Do we know for sure that we are talking about individual people or is this corporate? We are talking about Israel and Gentiles here. So you're talking about the nation, well, you say we're talking about the nation of Israel, Israel as a nation. Well, you were talking sort of in terms of individuals, which I think is the way to think about it. How do we know if they're talking about Israel or Gentiles?

The first part of the verse, what Israel corporately is seeking is not obtained individually. Let's just go back here for a second. Well, you know, it certainly talks about, all the verses we went through here talk about, there are some aspects that the nation of Israel, as a general rule, sought God by the law, through the law, on their own. But they couldn't obtain it.

But he personalizes, he personalizes, talks about faith and belief. And to my mind, that's on a personal level. I see what you're saying. So I think that the preceding chapters, the personal aspect is personal belief that is in view there. So when we get to here, it says, What then? What is Israel seeking? Generally, Israel sought to be justified through the law, but God is looking for them personally to come to Him by faith. I don't know, is that... I don't think that he's talking about a difference between Gentiles and Israel. No. I don't think so. No. I mean, I didn't answer the question. Go ahead, Jim. Is that what your question was?

And the reason is, I think, because we're talking in the context of Israel in this section so far. That's a good point. And so, it says, that which Israel is seeking for, it hasn't obtained, for those who were chosen, those who were chosen within the group of Israel. Right, yeah. I think it's where... Oh, okay, I see what you're saying, yeah. Yeah, so here's Israel, talking about Israel as a whole. And so those within Israel were chosen. So a select group within Israel were chosen. That's the way I'm seeing it. That's good, Jim. Thank you. I appreciate it. Actually, that helped me because I understand what you were saying there. Go ahead, Jim.

It seems like to prove that point from verse 7, he uses 8 and 9 to go back to the Old Testament. which is Israel. That's what he's talking about. Right. The whole context of 8, 9, and 10 is Israel. And he's constantly referring to that there is a believing remnant. And they believe on Christ. Even though Christ had not come yet, they believe on, you know, they look forward to that.

All right. Good. Good. Thank you. So, that help? Yeah. I just think that often we get to these passages and then we start getting concerned about It probably was my fault. The reason I went down that path is that the whole idea of God choosing, in our mind, at least to me, it seems like it's not a fair deal here. You can say, well, I wasn't chosen, therefore I couldn't believe. Well, I'm trying to say whether he's dealing with Israel or with the Gentiles, God chooses righteously and that chosenness is a characteristic of the fact that he believed. I was trying to make that clear, but I guess I didn't.

Another hard part maybe is how are we to view this hardening? Is this a bad deal? Has he unfairly stacked the deck against Israel? That's kind of my question. I have my answer to this coming up here. So what do you think? Unfairly? Probably not. Probably not. That's true. It's not. I don't think it's unfairly. Is it unwarranted? Let's say it's not unfairly. Is it justified?

That's right. Yeah. It is. Thank you. It is. Let's take a look back in Chapter 1. You can go back and look at hardening, all the way back to Pharaoh and how he hardened Pharaoh's heart. There's all kinds of really neat things about hardening. But I think this actually is related to it in a way. Let me go ahead and read this. Romans chapter 1 starting in verse 24.

Therefore God gave them over in the lust of their hearts to impurity and their bodies that they might be dishonored. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever. For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions." And it goes on. I'm really focused on the God gave them over. Basically, they didn't want the truth. They didn't want God's truth. They didn't want the truth about that righteousness comes by faith. They wanted righteousness by their system, their rules.

God says, no, it comes by faith. So God, at some point, gives them over. He says, okay, I give them over, and we're going to see that these passages quoted in the Old Testament speak of that, how God says, okay, you're going to have this stupor, you're going to have this blindness. It's going to be temporary, but I'm going to give you a blindness. No more questions, Carol, you've had your limit.

I can't believe that God ever took a righteous, God-loving man at heart. Absolutely. Amen. I would agree with you 100%. I think that it's critical to go up from verse 24 up to 18 and they suppress the truth. Exactly. And thank you. That's why God gave him over. Yes. And also in 21, because when they knew God, I mean, it's a fact. You guys are great. Bailing me out here, Noah. Well, actually, that whole section, I agree with you.

It wasn't, you know, The problem with this question of man's righteousness is that we want, as human beings, to be evaluated as righteous. So when you look at humankind practically, we're nasty. When you look at humankind ideally, we want to be all good, happy people with great little lives. But this verse brings it down to, okay, how do you sin in mankind? Am I painting myself prettier than I really am?

And I borrowed another statement from Hal, which I really liked. They were hardened because they continually rejected. They did not reject because they were hardened. God didn't harden them, and then they rejected Him. No. They rejected Him, and they said, OK, if that's what you want, He did that over and over again with Israel. You want a king? A king isn't good for you. You really want a king? Okay, I'll give you a king and you're going to see how bad it is. You want the law? Here's the law.

So there's no unrighteousness with God. Okay, so here are the verses that are recorded in the Old Testament. So basically, if you look through here, I won't go to the, we won't have to read the passages, but if you just go look here, this spirit of stupor is kind of an insensitivity. They aren't sensitive to the things of God, and their eyes can't see. It's like not being able to focus, and their ears really can't hear. Then David says, let their table... I think that's talking about their feasting table. Feasts were a big deal in Israel. All these wonderful feasts were glorifying the Lord. We're doing all these wonderful things. I'm kind of convicted by that today. I think about, wow, sometimes don't we kind of get carried away here? We're doing all these things, quote, for the Lord. I don't know. It kind of brings to mind some things.

And their trap, a stumbling block. They were stumbled, but they weren't in it. This is a temporary thing. We're going to see in the very next verse, in verse 11, how God's going to talk about they were stumbled, but that's not a permanent situation. Their eyes are darkened. They can see not. And then lastly, another summary here.

Israel is temporarily set aside or hardened. They are seeking righteousness in the wrong way. through their own self-righteousness. However, the chosen, the remnant, obtained it. The rest of Israel was hardened. God foretold this in the Old Testament. He gave them a spirit of insensibility. David foretold it several ways.

OK. Well, that's it. Any last questions, except for Carol? I'm sorry, Carol. You can ask all the questions you want, really. No, really, I'm joking with her. It's fine. It does. Actually, I appreciate the questions, and the contributions are great. I'm very thankful I get to teach here. If I taught some other place, I'd be scared to death. I feel like I'm on family here. If I goof up, hey, you'll set me straight.

Dear Father, we thank you so much, Lord. We thank you for your word, Father. We thank you that you know all hearts, Lord, and you're able to judge righteously and choose righteously. And you do it in terms of your grace, Lord, not willing that any should perish, that all should come to repentance, Lord. And we thank you for your word. Thank you that we can study it. And we thank you for this time. In Christ's name, amen.