& Other Principles
Vern Peterman · Mar 18, 2007
Marriage & Family, No. 13
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/492602174851

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Today, there will be no handout. We'll be using our Bibles. So if you have one, Nancy, if you don't have one, you can just share it. Nancy and I will share. That will fit the bill. You can ignore my notes. They're probably wrong. No, hopefully not. We'll start off. We won't finish there. We'll start off in the book of James, the first chapter. They usually got a handout that covers it. So we'll do it a little differently this way. I came across a verse this morning that made me think of last week's lesson, although it's in a different context. But it's actually said the opposite of what we were saying, although it was in a different context.

It said Paul was saying, Should a kid save up for his parents? The help the children should be providing isn't the children giving the parents money. The parents should be saving up for the needs of the kids. The help that the kids should be providing is the kind of things like helping them with circumstances and making sure you get financial things in order. But there could come a place where a child has to help financially. It could happen, but the point that Paul makes there is the general principle is that the parents ought to be saving up for the children.

It says, for children are not responsible to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. Right, right. And that's a good point because what it points to is that it is not the responsibility of children to be financially supporting their parents, but helping in a number of other ways that they end up needing as they get older. It's not in conflict. It points out the opposite end of the responsibility. As parents, think about that. As kids get to a certain age, they have certain fairly large financial needs. It's different than it might have been in biblical times.

For example, a daughter, you have to save up and have this dowry. So it was that, and that ended up being a fairly significant thing. I remember reading one record, a record in the papyrus, where one guy actually, he had divorced the wife but didn't have the money anymore because he had to give it back. He actually had to sell himself into slavery to pay off the money that he owed from the divorce. That would make you think twice. Oh yeah. But just a matter of thinking through even now, we've got maybe college expenses and things like that. That's where they can be fairly significant. Training of various kinds.

You know I think the dowry I think in looking at the dowry in the past, I've always thought that a dowry was what the father of the bride paid the groom to marry the daughter? That's what I always thought. I think what it is, as we're looking at this, is it's a way that the father continues to provide for his daughter in case something happens to the husband. If they should divorce, or maybe even if he died, she would have that to live on. It's interesting, and it would be something if there was a divorce. The husband had to make sure the money was back.

We are going to start off in James 1.19 and then move over to Galatians 5.22 and 23.

Let's begin by praying. Lord, thank you that we can look for the most important relationship here on planet earth. that as we've seen lives out the eternal relationship between Christ and the church. We thank you that we can look to you for guidance and leading and draw the truths of these passages to our hearts. Thank you for all you've given us in Jesus' name. Amen.

We're going to start in James 1.19 and this is often times not looked at as a marriage passage, but I look at it because it is a verse about communications. About how do we interact?

As a matter of fact, I heard one instance, and I only heard it and I didn't get the reference, but apparently there was some government-funded study when they were all done in terms of what are the key principles to improve marriages. They ended up with James 119 as their final conclusion. I wish I had references for that. That was the one I just heard verbally and didn't have the opportunity to ask.

But let me read it. This is the New American Standard. This you know, my beloved brethren, but everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. What's interesting there, this is not a passage that has great insights coming out of the Greek or something. What it says in English is Pretty close to what it means originally. And it's also a fairly simple one. And it's really the last part of that verse.

But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. Now, why would I bring this up in a marriage context? It's because communication needs to take place, right? And think about this. What's the quick to hear principle about. What's that say? Listen? Yeah, listen. You think about it, quick to hear also implies an eagerness to hear, to listen. If you're quick to listen and slow to speak, it also puts a focus on listening carefully.

Why in a marriage relationship would that be of any importance? Because I want you to know what I think. What this does is it puts a priority, doesn't it? A priority on listening first. The tendency is often for us to, you know, I want to get out what I've got to say. And the quick to hear thing talks about the priority of listening in the marriage relationship.

And obviously he didn't intend this just for marriage, but a key principle, obviously, because it's... James is one of those books where a lot of people will look at it and say, boy, that's a harsh book. But the reality is he talks a lot about communication. And this is an important one. The quick to listen thing. Now let's get down to reality. What does this mean in a marriage relationship if quick to listen is the priority? How does that impact day in and day out in the marriage?

There's an understanding There's an understanding of what? Between the two. And what's the understanding? Each other's thoughts and feelings. Okay. Alright. There's an understanding that I'm wanting to hear what you've got to say. I would suggest that perhaps this fits in well.

Remember 1 Peter 3.7? where the husband is to live in an understanding way with the wife. This is a key principle here, that this listening thing is important.

Well, and conversely, that a wife is to be submissive to her husband, and I loved the explanation that Brad gave this morning in the First Peter class, that that submission is not a grinding under the thumb or the foot, but it's rather a way of the person who is submitting is lifting up and encouraging and helping. And supporting. And supporting. the person to whom they are submitting. And for us to be submissive and to build up in that way, we have to listen. James puts a priority on the listening. And notice he doesn't say which gender is supposed to listen first. It goes both ways, doesn't it?

Well, I think we all know the answer to that. So here's something, it's interesting, it's not in a marriage context, and he doesn't put any gender characteristics. As a matter of fact, it says here, everyone in the New American Standard, I think that King James says every man, but it's Anthropos, which is not just male. Andros is specifically male, so it really means everyone. And so it's interesting. It isn't a matter of, you know, we've got to pick who listens and who doesn't. But it's a universal.

And James just lays it out that way, and he doesn't make, you know, except for this guy, you know, or except for that one. So it's a universal that he lays out. And then slow to speak, does that mean you have to speak with a Texas drawl? You're more holy if you say it slowly.

Years ago there was a fellow, I went to high school with his daughter, and he was a logger. His name was Mr. Tucker. Mr. Tucker had a brother who was from Arkansas come to visit. And in this little valley where you know, everybody was. There was only one highway and it's a little windy road and you can't see around the corner at all that well in some places. So anyway, Mr. Tucker came along, you know, to one of these roads that came up to the main highway. And his brother, who was visiting from Arkansas, was sitting over at the passenger side and he asked his brother, anything coming from that direction? You know, he's looking this way and his brother's looking the other way. No, nothing coming. So he starts off, nothing but a big old log and drove.

That's not what we mean by slow to speak, okay? I'm sure that Mr. Tucker would really have liked his brother to speak faster. So yeah, I made for a little panicky start there. So the slow to speak, why did you say slow to speak? Now again, slow to speak, what does that mean? I really know it doesn't mean a drawl. But what's that talking about?

Slow to speak. Don't interrupt. Let them finish their sentence or their thought. The priority first is the priority on listening. And so then you listen to the other person. That's first priority. And second priority is get out what you have to say. And he didn't say not speak. He just said slow to speak. So he's placing a priority on it. And think about this for a minute.

If we get in a conversation, how do heated arguments start? Or are you wondering too? How do they start? What happens? Well, you've got to prove that you're right, so you make a statement. Yeah, a lot of times what will happen is it's this principle that hurts you. I got out, bang, ba-bing, ba-bing, ba-bing, and I got out what I wanted to say and frequently misunderstandings about things. Have you ever found yourself, after something has caused a problem, preface what you're going to say expressing what you're thinking. I thought that or I didn't think that. And what is it? What we're expressing is we had different assumptions and then we got into the situation and it turned out my assumption wasn't right. So we can get into situations like that and often the argument gets heated because we put the gas pedal heavy-footed on getting the words out. That isn't always the cause, but it's frequent. We get those words out there, and the accelerator gets really pumped down on spitting them out. The listening part is not thought about. What's something else about speaking slowly? Is there some other aspect of it that Think before you speak.

Often times what causes hurtful and heated interactions is where things come out bullet fast and then all of a sudden, like the computers, there's no undo. I kind of click, you know? Things come out bullet fast and then, you know, a lot of times hurtful.

And so if the conversation starter isn't, I thought that, or I didn't think that, it might be, I wish I hadn't said that. There's another aspect to it too, and he gets to it, and that is that frequently what is said quickly, what is said without some time to ponder it, Frequently those things that come out quick are more from emotion and not mind. Not that well thought through even though the emotion might be intense. And so what does he back this up with?

Slow to anger. And that's another thing you think about it. The slow to anger part. What do you get angry about? What kind of things make you angry? Not being listened to? Isn't that interesting? It can be angrying. It can cause one to anger just to feel like you're not being listened to.

So that right there is one of the things that cuts the anger off. It's making sure, yeah, I'm being listened to. In the long run, I may need to do some rethinking, but at least I'm being listened to. So you cut the length off underneath the anger right there. I think also about flow to anger.

What other value is there in this being slow to anger? It doesn't build walls. Think about the anger. What are the two ways that anger acts within a person? Where does it go? Either inward or outward. Yeah, that's right. Here's the priority of listen first, speak second, act or thought, not just what I feel intensely. But the slow to anger thing, not only is avoiding the, you know, gee, I'm not being listened to, but it's where does that anger go? Because that's something that's interesting.

You know, we've kind of been brought up on this Freudian idea of you've got to get the anger out. And actually they've done some studies and they find that expressing your anger increases your risk of heart attack. actually increase, and it's not just minor increase, it's a significant increase of heart attack risk from people expressing anger. So the Freudian idea of get it out isn't necessarily a cure-all. But neither is being angry and boiling inside. That's not so good either.

So it's interesting, the anger thing, you've got a real question though, where's that going? Where's it going? If it's going inside, what happens if it stays inside for some time? Does it come out? It's going to eventually blow up. Yeah, it can be one of those things where, you know, If it came out earlier, it would be one kind of an expression, but since it's been saved up... I think it may not always just come out as a big explosive thing, but it may come out in health issues or just general bitterness in your life. Yes. Yeah, cynicism.

And that's the Colossians warning for the husbands. Don't be embittered against your wife. So here's this anger inside. I won't say anything, but inside I'm just gloiling. The geyser is being capped. The anger thing is something, he says, check it, but not just to you know, cap it, but also just because, you know, don't feed it. It is going to go somewhere. It is going to go somewhere.

And maybe there might be a time to express it. But you probably got to think about it and not just react in order to really make sure it's the right kind of thing to say. What kind of things do we get angry about? We talked about one, not being listened to. What else? Perceived injustice. Frequently we get angry about something that, right or wrong, perceived is a good word, right or wrong is an injustice. This isn't right. And one of the things that our scripture points out is, how does the Lord deal with injustice? He deals with it. Yeah, I know. You think about it.

Eventually, and I'm looking at it from an eternal perspective, there will be no injustice that won't be addressed. None. Not even the slightest. And by that I'm not implying there's no grace. But every single injustice will be dealt with. No exceptions. And there isn't some under-the-radar small injustice. Every single one.

And think about it, where those get dealt with, they get dealt with either on the cross, because we accept God's grace and the Lord's payment on the cross for those. They get dealt with here in this life, or for those who won't accept the cross applied to those injustices, they get dealt with in eternity. And so ultimately there will be no injustice that won't be dealt with. And so he can look at slow to anger not as a, okay I'm going to cap my geyser. But a part of it comes from a perspective that says injustice is frequently the source of our anger. There will be no injustice that God won't ultimately deal with. None. Nothing. No, not a single one. And if I understand that, if I have that perspective, it reduces the number of things that I can really get angry about, and it changes the character of the anger.

Because frequently what we want is, I don't care about the cross, I don't care about God judging things in eternity, I want justice now! You know? And that's the human perspective. We want to see justice, we want to see justice now, and obviously since we're the one that sees the injustice more than anybody else, we're going to be the ones to make sure that it gets dealt with.

So James 119, a key principle, often times not thought of as American classic, but a key priority. It's probably a worthwhile and valuable thing. It's probably a worthwhile and valuable thing for at some moment when there is no big issue to just talk about how do we communicate.

Do you feel like I'm listening? When we talk, do you feel like I'm listening to you? How do you feel about our interactions? Are you worried about what I'm going to say? Are you worried about the volcano that's going to blow? Or do you worry that I sit there and broil inside? And to talk about that, probably at some moment when it's not happening. Yeah. Instead of picking the moment to try to perform heart surgery. Not a good idea.

But at some moment when the pressure is not on, to just simply talk about how you communicate and how does this fit in with your relationship. Just think the difference that it makes in a relationship to know He or she really listens to me and is really interested in listening, by the way, taking time. That can often times be tough.

One of the things that Vern and I have found, especially recently, it's kind of like, oh yeah, this is right, that when we pray about things together, Both of us are kind of concerned about whatever particular issue it is, but we have different perspectives on it. When we pray about it together, the tension is relieved because no matter that we have different perspectives, we both have the perspective that the Lord can deal with it, and we put it before Him. And then we know we can trust him to deal with it the right way. So when we pray about it together, it's hugely helpful.

It really, really, I think, takes the pressure off. It takes the pressure off of us trying to solve it. It heads off the explosion. It also heads off the implosion. You know what I mean by the implosion? Those times when it's not what's going on between us, what's happening inside of me that can be just as devastating. So both of those get dealt with.

Just looking at the simple priorities that are in here and taking time to talk about that at a moment that's not so high pressure and so that it's well understood. How about feedback on how we can do it better? Nancy and I, for some time, would get in some cycle where I would want, let's deal with this.

And she wasn't responding. Oh, well, here, you know, some more, you know, more words. Let's talk about some more, but he'd be doing all the talking. She's still not responding. I guess I've got to talk some more. Then finally it comes out, she's imploding. The way she expressed it was, I'm falling off a cliff emotionally. So what's happening?

It isn't necessarily that I've expressed some massive anger, but I've been real quick to speak. I've been slow to listen and as a matter of fact she needed a lot more time to think about it and then to have me listen. So I spoke way too soon and needed instead to let her have some time to ponder and then we talked about it. And God is so good, he used one of our own children to teach us that lesson. Because we were having a talk one night, and I was really trying to communicate, struggling with it. And Vern used to say to me, you know, with this child, you can't just address things head on always.

You need to give him time to think things through. And I finally realized, wait a minute. I need that same time." When I finally approached Vern, when I realized it, because I didn't realize it either, and then when I told Vern, yeah, but I need that same time to think things through, he just went, oh. He wasn't trying to be mean to me. He wanted things to be resolved.

But that's part of understanding each other, really, and understanding yourself as well. This is how I deal better with things, if I can kind of think it through, play it through in my own mind, and then we can talk about it. Because sometimes I'm not always as aware of my feelings or what I've been doing or thinking as I should be. And so then when it comes up, having the time to actually address it in my own mind, then I can talk with him about it. I had interpreted that for years, frankly, as an unwillingness to deal with things. When James points on time here, we're critical. A lesson I needed to learn. And quick to listen, slow to speak. I had those reversed. Okay.

Let's turn to Galatians 5. 22 and 23. And this is the couple of verses that talk about the fruit of the Spirit. Nancy, why don't you read that, 22 and 23. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Against such things there is no law. Just in general, could you see how those kinds of things in the marriage would help the marriage a lot? Let's step our way through them. because I think there's some value in that. The first one of these is love, and this is of the various kinds of love. This is the agape love. This is the kind of love that considers the needs of the other first and seeks to meet the needs regardless of deserving. This is a kind of love that looks to the benefit of the other. And in a biblical context, it means with God as its source. Now you can fairly quickly see how that's a really important thing in a marriage relationship.

How about the joy part? By the way, let's ask a question. What's the difference between joy and happiness? besides Sadius Bellum. Doesn't happiness seem to depend more on your circumstances? Joy can be in any circumstance. Joy, especially as it comes out here, is something that doesn't depend on circumstances, but instead comes from the Lord himself, independent of circumstances.

Peace. Gee, that's nice. This is Irene, this is the name Irene comes from this. Shalom is the Jewish greeting, you know, they would, instead of saying hello, they would say shalom, peace. Jerusalem, Yerushalom, okay, habitation of peace. But what kind of peace is this talking about here? Is this no AK-47s? This would be that emotional peace? I mean, say emotional, but probably more far-reaching.

Peace within. Peace from within that begins at the spiritual level. Peace that begins at the spiritual level. A lot of times, and this relates to the joy definition, a lot of times we're looking for circumstances where there's peaceful circumstances. And if you have very many kids running around the house all at once, you know what that means. But this is a piece that springs from a spiritual source. in the context here, not just lack of both of those.

Now this next one, an important distinction to be made, is translated patience, but it's a special kind of patience. There are different words in the Greek for patience, and they both get translated the same way. This one, makrothumia, means patience with people. Hupomone means patience with circumstances. This is patience with people. Specifically this one. So very interesting that the fruit of the Spirit includes this patience with people specifically. Then you look at the next one, gentleness. Gentleness. What is gentleness like? And how is that different from wimpy? Mine has kindness next. Okay. This is the King James, is that right? What's in the Interlinear Greek? I'm sorry, I'm reading the Interlinear Greek here.

Well, gentleness is... strength under control, maybe? Like, it's not... I don't see it as being a dictator. Yeah, in other words, if you look at it, you know, you could put it on the opposite end of the spectrum and say, you know, here's gentleness and here's aggressive character. But this isn't either one of those, is it? And it's not just being unaggressive. What is this character of gentleness or kindness? What does that mean?

What does that convey? when I worked for my dad back in Chicago, and he was very well respected in the barcoding industry, but he was not an aggressive person at all. In fact, sometimes I think, people are going to walk all over you because you're so nice, but he had this gentle way about him that ultimately made him well respected and liked by people in his industry. When I moved out here, people had heard of him. I went to work in the same industry, and I just remember thinking, You don't have to be a shark. You can still be gentle and do well, or get what you need. You used a word to describe your dad, well-respected. In a way, I guess when I think of this word, in the context that we're talking about it, it's that he was respectful.

Kindness shows respect for the other person. Let's say you show up in ER with an injury. Do you want them not to do anything? Do you want them to do nothing? No. You came in there because you want them to do something. Do you want them to be rough and gruff with your injury? No. Not that either, please.

Gentleness, kindness doesn't mean passive, inactive. It means a willingness to act, but an acting that cares for how the other person is receiving it. So it's real important. This isn't a passivity. This isn't an inactivity. that's thinking, how is this person receiving this and I care about that. This puts a flavor, a perspective on the James 119 passage we looked at. Because you start adding these characteristics to the listening, these characteristics to the speaking.

The next one there is goodness. How does that have an impact on the marriage relationship? Goodness. This is a moral goodness. What does that do for the marriage relationship? I think it builds trust. I mean, if you know that other person will always take the high road, you can trust them. Ah, okay. Yeah. I'm not going to get some surprising deviation from character here. Oh, no! Yeah. What's next there?

Faithfulness. Now what does that mean? Full of faith? What kind of synonyms come to mind when you think of faithfulness? Loyalty. Loyalty comes in there. Yeah. Loyalty. And why does that matter in a marriage relationship? Why is loyalty going to be a big thing? It lends itself to trust. Knowing that that other person is going to stand by you.

One of the criteria for an elder, which as we saw in the first Peter class a couple of weeks back or last week, is that they be, in English we'll say a husband and one wife, but the Greek structure there points to a one-woman kind of man. There's this faithfulness. Some people will say, a husband and one wife, well then he can't be divorced.

That's not what it's pointing to. It's pointing to character. By the way, it's present character. He may have been something else in the past. So what it says, you're not looking at his marital record per se. You might look at it and ask some questions. You're not looking at the marital record per se, you're looking at, is this guy at heart a one-woman kind of man? You don't want some guy who's only been married once, but he's looking at every skirt walking by.

Because she puts up with it. character that comes out here. This faithfulness is something you can look at consistent character. It connects up with the loyalty idea real well. What does that do? Especially if you look at it, there is a trust there. There is a security in the relationship. Remember the word that was used in Ephesians 5 for the husband will be joined to the wife? And the Greek word actually has the implication superglue. Superglue. That there is this intense joining. And this faithfulness fits right along with that. How does that fit in with the James 119 passage? How does faithfulness put that James 119 passage in a good perspective?

If this is listening to a spouse, this is listening to that spouse with an ear that is assuring the other person, you're the one that counts. You're the one that counts for the rest of our lives. Listening to you, there's no person on planet Earth that's more important to listen to.

One of the things that It happens when you kind of do an exit interview on folks whose marriage didn't work out. Frequently, it's the listening problem, which is where the unfaithfulness starts. Isn't that something? It started in not listening with faithfulness. Someone felt like they weren't being heard. Isn't the cliché from the movies and the TV programs when they discuss it is, well, she didn't understand him. My wife doesn't understand me, or my husband doesn't understand me. Often times what you'll hear about is the other woman or some such story. Frequently what they're looking for is not necessarily a different body but a different ear. But it goes both ways, both male and female.

James is right, we both need that principle and that principle carried out combined with what we see as the character here in Galatians 5, 22 and 23 This is a listening, the listening of which says, you're the number one person on planet earth and nobody else comes close.

That's big, isn't it? That's really big. And it's at that point that trouble starts, is the not listening. and not listening with a heart of faithfulness. Not only is it a priority for me to listen, but it's a priority for me to listen to you. And that needs to be gotten across. Let's take a look at the next one there.

I've got some things, oh yeah, meekness, and it says gentleness in the American Standard. I've got some different words that they've chosen there. Similar kinds of words, but what's different that's being conveyed there? Does meekness imply humility? Yeah, we hear meekness and that's not a word we use that much. And it rhymes with weakness, so we think, well, it's close. But it's not that. It's not that. It implies humility.

There was a really smart guy who's home with the Lord now. He was one of these guys that didn't speak that much, but when he said something, he wanted to listen. There's a sheep rancher I knew. I remember him saying that humility is giving credit where credit is due.

That this meekness looks carefully to see things as they really are. It's not prideful. It doesn't go grabbing for what's not theirs. marriages can get into trouble because people are playing marital tug of war. I want my turf. So this meekness addresses that. I'm not there to look for my territory. I'm not there to make sure I get credit. So what does that look like in a marriage? How does that get spelled out? And this is something that both male and female, this applies. So how does that get spelled out in a marriage? Not saying, I told you so, or I'm right and you were wrong. Think of the different things. That's one of them. Good. And I told you so. I want to make sure she knows I'm right. So there's that.

Get the last put down. That's what's on the TV shows, the sitcoms. Try to get the last put down. My put down is bigger than yours. Another is trying to get the other one to do more stuff. You've got to do this stuff and this stuff and this stuff. I want her and she wants me to go back and forth in a tug of war to get him to do more stuff. Because after all you've got the rope and the rope is 50-50 and you've got this little marker in the middle of the rope and there's the line. and trying to lever to get the other person to do more stuff and pull the end of the load, all that.

This looks at it and says, that's not the game. This is a grace game. Self-control is the last one there. Why is that particularly helpful? Slow to speak. It goes with the James passage. It fits with the James passage really well because it says I'm able to place the priority there. I'm able to listen first. I'm able to let the person that I'm married to know that that's where I place the priority. I'm able to hold back on what I think I've got to get across. We talked about the undo button. The undo icon is hard to find sometimes. And things get blurted out. It's a little difficult to pull that back and undo the damage sometimes.

So the self-control. It's a big thing. Now there may be some explicit thing aside from just our conversation as well. But just speaking in general terms, what are some things that get out of control among one or the other of the people and end up causing problems? Excesses of various kinds.

Yeah, like spending money. Yeah, it can be spend crazy. Right. Or workaholic. Workaholic is another one. And see, there might be things that are perfectly valid were it not for the quantity. Right. And so that's one thing. Marriage is getting in trouble because of drinking. Over 80.

Anything that gets to be out of whack or something out of control just becomes some compulsive behavior. And it's amazing. I mean, it can be lots of things. And a number of them can be things that were not out of balance and out of control that might be just fine. And that's where it gets difficult. If you were saying, hey, you're drilling holes in the wall or something, that would be pretty obvious. Or you're smashing the car into a tree every week. That's a problem.

But oftentimes these things can be things that are socially acceptable in and of themselves. or even good, like volunteering and helping. I know people who are always doing stuff for other people so that they don't have to focus on what's going on at home. It's a good thing, but not when it's at the expense of... Let's think about the self-control thing and things getting out of whack.

Let's put that together with James 1.19.

How does the James 1.19 passage feed into this self-control? and help the health of the relationship.

You definitely have to exercise self-control to be slow to speak. I haven't been very good at that in my lifetime. Think about the areas where people tend to get in excess. Like I say, it might be something perfectly socially acceptable. But it gets out of control. Where does the James 119 passage help? Well, I think it forces you to take the time to listen and the time to formulate your response. If one person is starting to have excess of something, or not enough of something, that could be another out-of-control thing.

There's a feedback loop there, isn't there? There's a feedback loop. Hey, that's a little much. psychiatrist and the psychiatrist says, well, what's the problem? What can we talk about here? The guy says, well, my friends are telling me that I like pancakes too much. The psychiatrist says, I don't know why that's a problem.

I enjoy them too. The guy says, you do? You've got to come over to my house. I have two trunks full of them in the attic. There's this recognition, hey, this is a little bit much. And then here's the thing, how does it impact the marriage relationship? Are we there to listen? How is this impacting you?

For 15 years when I was a workaholic to the max, Nancy tried to get my attention. You go see a counselor, I'm too busy. I've got too much stuff to do. See you later. I'm not willing to listen to the fact that I'm way out of whack. Had I been willing to listen, had I said I'll be quick to listen, It might have been a whole different story. It might not have taken 15 years. But fortunately Nancy had lots of macrosomia, patience with people, especially me. Now, one thing we've got to do with this list here, here we have the fruit of the Spirit.

Do we just try really hard to make those happen in the relationship? Is that... Give it our best effort? Grind them gears and do it. Pound it out. Give it the old cause. How does that happen? Mercy in the fruit. Mercy in Christ. Yeah, this isn't the fruit of our best efforts. This is the fruit of the Spirit.

And he had just told them in verse 16, when I say walk by the Spirit, it is walk in fellowship with the Lord by the Spirit's work in your life. and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. You will instead carry out these things. So the fruit of walking where the spirit is directing your focus upon Christ, that is what results in these things we see here.

So it's not a, you know, here's our marriage program, I'll just try really hard to exhibit these things. That was never God's intent. But God's intent instead was our dependence upon the Lord himself. And that these These are expressed as a result of our dependence, not as a result of our best efforts.

What does that also tell us about the James 119 passage? We also need to depend on him for that. Yeah, yeah. Notice he says this is a must, but it's not a must based on the best efforts that our sin nature can put out. But it's instead something that comes as a result of our dependence upon the Lord.

But I'd suggest to you that these two passages, neither one of them look at the surface like they're marriage passages. And yet, just talking through it, you can start to see, oh boy, this impacts lots of things. Just that? Yeah. Lots and lots of different impacts. And I think it's one of the things to look at as you talk about the marriage relationship.

How is this working with us? Are we seeing that? Is this something we need to ask the Lord to teach us something about? In what ways does it work out? Are we making enough time to listen? That was part of the problem that I was sharing previously. Absolutely not enough time to listen. I'm running too fast. I've got to get back to the racquetball courts at 5 a.m. because I've got a game. And then I have another game at 6. Somebody else. And then I've got to get into work. I've got to get into the office. I've got to get going. And just run and run and run and run without listening. And let's ask one more question.

What does the listening What does the priority on listening tell the person that you're listening to? What does that say to them? That you love them and you care about them. Yeah, isn't that interesting? You're listening, but although you might think of that as a passive thing, it communicates a lot. Isn't that something? Isn't that amazing? It communicates so much Just to listen. Just to listen.

Have you ever had an experience where you knew you were saying something and the other person wasn't listening? You ever had that happen? Never. I'm sorry, what? Never. Even over the phone you can tell when you're talking and the other person is completely tuned out. And you're like, okay. It's only happened a couple of times to me.

And what that says, I can't necessarily make the other person listen, but I do have control over my listening. And what I want to say, especially if you look at what's the most important relationship here on planet Earth, how important is it that I convey that I'm listening? If my listening says good things, if my listening says I love you, then what could be more important than conveying this immense message while keeping my mouth shut? One little quirk in this. Are there things that we say that we do say, that say that we're listening. Are there things that we say that... That say that we're listening. Nancy's talking, all right? Is listening all just about my keeping my mouth shut?

No. You can go, mm-hmm, or nod your head. Sometimes there are expressions, yeah. And sometimes it can be a statement or in addition to the conversation that says you understood. Okay, yeah. A reiterating. Or a clarifying question. Do you mean that? And that says you're listening. It's speaking. But it's wanting to listen first, then speak. But even the speaking is saying you're listening. Even the speaking is conveying the message that I'm listening first. And I want to listen even better. Right.

Isn't that something? I think that's really important. There are times when we say something and it isn't understood. So if you get the feedback, you know whether it's understood or not. Yeah. So a key principle in that is conveying that you're listening, and it may involve some words. It isn't just all about keeping your trap shut, but it may involve some speaking as a response that makes sure that you're understanding clearly, that tells the other person that you are listening. So just a part of that process there. Okay. Other thoughts? Jubilations? Exasperations? Yes? No? Okay. Well, we were either extremely thorough or just flabbergasted. Overwhelmed. Or we weren't listening. We're just being very slow to speak.

Let's talk about next month. We're going to not meet this next Sunday. We said that. But we haven't put out a schedule for April. Is anybody aware of particular times when it would be good not to meet next month? We are gone until April 2nd on vacation.

So we're gone next Sunday and the weekend after. So you're gone next Sunday and the weekend after. Because the next Sunday we won't be meeting anyway. Right. Is the weekend after next Sunday? Is that Easter? No, it's the next weekend. Palm Sunday is April 1st.

Easter is the 8th. So you're gone on the first day. We'll be shifting into principles of parenting, which may be a little bit of a jump for you, but probably still worth your while. Once you get into it, you realize all the preparation that might have gone into it would certainly be worth it now that I'm into this. Obviously we're not going to have a class on April 8th, Easter Sunday.

So it looks like the third... The 15th. The 15th, yeah. It's not until the 17th. Oh, that's right. 17th? Yeah. Because it's a Sunday and a holiday weekend. So they can procrastinate longer? Yes. Everybody can procrastinate two days longer and then panic. Then panic, right. So it looks like that's when and then the rest of April is okay for folks? I think so.

So anyway, we'll shift into parenting principles, and then following that, finances. And what I'll probably do with the finances thing is kind of have a second announcement up there, because we may get other people that are interested. Single folks who, you know, the marriage thing may not be in the works for them, but the finances might be of interest. or folks who just have a particular interest in it. So anyway, we'll kind of re-announce and maybe get some other folks involved with that.

Just real quickly, are we going to have class on the first then? I think we should probably pass on it. Okay. So how many classes are under the topic of children, raising children? I have to take a look. We'll take a few. two or three kind of thing, and then shift to finances. With the finances thing, I already have a curriculum worked out for that, and I think that's eight. What are the finance topics? Is it like budgeting? Is it giving?

All those. You have high speed internet, right? I'll just send it to you. I'll email it to you. Because he could teach a class on that. Yeah, we have done a lot of... that type of stuff. Larry Burkett. That's when we started to get our finances in order. Long time ago. He had me well trained. Fern wins because he thought a lot of people have problems with their finances. I should take this class. He came home the first day and said, we need to have a good message. He did. Is he not doing it anymore? He's home with the Lord. I didn't even know that. I used to be.

So anyway, I'll work up a schedule for April and then once we get towards the end, I'd kind of like to do things a little at a time so we can do it when we can be there and make sense for everybody. And then we'll continue on into May and June. I'll go ahead and just email you the finances. I did it here. You've done it twice, haven't you here? Actually what I did is I did it once on Wednesday night and once at the same time. I also did it on Sunday after church like this. So it was the same class on Sunday and Wednesday. Almost everybody in the church was in it. It would be people who want to return to it for whatever reason or folks that weren't here then.

I will say, I can't remember if you were in the class, but it was about the time we were newlyweds, and it was great for us because we sat down and made a budget together, which kind of freaked Chrissy out, but I was saying, no, this will educate... No, we weren't married yet. Oh yeah. We were just engaged. This is romantic. I didn't think it was romantic, but I'm like, this will help us share with each other our priorities, right? You consciously decide what your priorities are. And actually, I think you came out of that thinking that was great. Well, yeah, because I remember my dad telling me once, you will always be in debt. That's just a fact of life. And Gary's going, no, you don't have to always be in debt.

So I do remember I paid my car off before we got married. I was debt free walking into the marriage. It's really true. When we went on the budget, and again, we'd been married for 15, 16 years. for quite a while. And we did have debt at that point. We had quite a bit of debt at that point. And you know what? We sat down and we figured out a budget and for the first time in our marriage I had spending money.

For the first time in our marriage we started saving and we paid off all of our debt. Isn't that amazing? It was amazing and it was so much fun to see that debt because it really snowballs as you pay it off and we've never been in debt again. It's been great and the great thing was our kids were at an age where we could begin teaching them the principles and as a result our kids have done much better than we did.

I'm in charge of entering all the receipts, which I'm a little behind on. We pretty much keep up with it, but when we don't, Spending just kind of spirals out of control when you kind of rein it in. The self-control thing becomes an issue. Yeah, and then when you know where everything is going.

That's right. Right, when you can look at a graph and go, ooh, I spent a little at Walmart this month. And you can really free yourself. Yes. Actually free. I remember talking to my sister-in-law one day just after we'd gone on the budget, and I was so excited because for the first time I had some spending money.

And she said, isn't it true you think that a budget is going to lock you down and you won't have any money to spend when in reality it frees you up because you're not just shriveling it away into things you don't know. you know, kind of mathematically add things up and realize you have choices, right? Yes, you do. What's more important? Do you want to go out to eat once a week or do you want to go on a vacation? You know, and you start to see the trade-offs really clearly. Yes. And that's what I was talking about. You kind of get to hear the other person's priorities and kind of work within them. You're absolutely right, which is why you forgot to include the new cars that we're going to need soon.

You woke me up on New Year's Day and said, And I'm going, oh no, I can't face it this early in the morning. We stayed up past midnight for once in my life. Oh my gosh, I was like, I can't, I can't do it. It was interesting because then you can say, hey this year let's consciously choose to do this. And see that's the other thing, we have never taken a real vacation and that year we took a vacation.

Isn't that cool? Yeah, it was a real valuable tool. Let's call it good here. Let me pry in. Lord, we do thank you. Your word is so insightful. There are these guys who met, but very briefly, James and Paul. We see what they had to say to us works together very well. and brings us understanding and insight. We thank you for it. Thank you for the chances that we've had to meet together to examine your word and the principles that your word spells out. We give you thanks for it all in Jesus' name. Amen.