Life stages in Scripture
Vern Peterman · Mar 11, 2007
Marriage & Family, No. 12
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926020161531

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Okay, this is life stages. Last week we talked about... I don't know if you got a chance to catch up with that. That's one of the reasons it's good to have things online. You can catch up when you can. That's right. At any rate, we talked about what are some of the inter-family relationships and relationships within the family that count. What are some of the impacts? This week we're talking about life stages. It's one of those things that before people step into a marriage it's good to have perspective on what am I signing up for.

The fact is it's a blank check. It really is. You don't know. That's right. I've told Nancy about, there was one seminary professor who lived right near the seminary. It's like across the street or something. And his wife for basically most of their marriage was an invalid. And he would go and teach a class and run back over home to take care of the wife because she couldn't move. She was just on the bed. And so he would be constantly... And just the whole time that they were married, that's where she was. For decades? Yeah, just for decades. I think they were married like 30 years or something. Wow. Wow. And by the way, it's very unusual for a man I don't mean to say that as a sexist statement. Statistically, men will bail. Women will stay.

Just recognizing that life goes through those stages and that scripture addresses those. To take a look at it, what I've done is I've laid it out. Here's what's typical, but the reality is there can be exceptions. The first column you see there is here's your birth. Of course, scripture has a thing to say about that. Fearfully and wonderfully made. Things of that sort.

There is, of course, the growing up process, and we'll talk about parenting as we get on there. But then there's the next kind of milestone. This one who is born and raised is then married and leaves home. Sometimes that happens sooner, sometimes later. And, of course, scripture has a lot to say about that, and we've talked about some of those.

The next stage there is children and men out of that marriage are born and then raised. And then the children marry and leave home. And then they get to the stage of assistance from the children. And then death. And of course, we've got some scriptures there. Notice I've put lines underneath. You could probably put more under a number of those categories, but at least we've got some semblance. Now, that's a typical sequence. How might things be different from the sequence?

Leave home for a time before you're married. You might leave home before you're married instead of going directly from home. You may have children who never do marry or have handicaps. You can have either because of a birth condition or because of something that develops from accident or illness along the way. Maybe some child never gets to the place where they can leave home. That can happen. A death of one spouse? A death of one spouse suddenly cut the thing short. Never have children? Pardon? No children? Yeah, can't have children, discovered. Or choose not to. Or choose not to.

Children marry and leave home, you know, that might be different. They may get married and come back. We have here assistance from the children. It's possible that a parent may never need the assistance or maybe they are really healthy and sound of mind and all that. Maybe the parent dies young. Everybody is out of the house, but the parent dies young.

So there are things that can change the sequence. My oldest brother died of colon cancer when he was in his early 40s, so this all gets cut off. He had three kids, so that all gets cut off. So, I lay this out, and this is a typical sequence, but just a recognition there could be things that change the sequence and when things end. That would be kept in mind, too. Think of what's going to happen.

Here is this person who is in a home, and they're growing up. What responsibility do they have before the marriage, their own marriage? Obeying the parents. There is for them in that home context an obedience to the parents. Notice that when we have the marriage leave home, there is then a respect so this all falls under the honor the parents and then finally a responsibility for the aging parent and even dealing with their death so honor your father and mother which is of course one of the Ten Commandments and I don't mean to place law but just that's how it was recognized early in the Jewish culture honor the parents had different meanings at different stages And this is something that is brought over not as a matter of law, but as a principle under grace, is to honor the parents. So you look at it as the children are under their mother and father obedience, then respect even for those parents when you have established your own home, you are away from them, respect, and then the responsibility for in their later years and it could come sooner or later, in their later years and even in dealing with their death.

Now, why do we bring this up under marriage? Because what's happening, you say I do, part of what you're saying I do to is, I am saying I do towards sharing the responsibility with regards to your parents. There's kind of an old saying that you don't just marry your spouse, you marry their family. Yeah. So you're stepping into a mutual, like I say, blank check. You don't know quite what this means.

I was working in the engineering office and I had actually to my surprise, suddenly been called in and they said, we need your help in accounting. So I became the accounting manager all of a sudden. And it wasn't long after that that Nancy's mom called me and her husband, Nancy's dad, had just gone down in the yard and they'd had the paramedics there. We were to find out that that was his last day. He had just put the lawnmower away, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know. So, and then suddenly then here's a situation where Nancy's mom needs assistance. Now, did we know about that in advance? No, I mean, even that morning, Nancy's dad didn't know that it was his last day. But, so you don't know what you're signing up for. What does this mean?

When you think of I do, you have all these, gee, it means this and this and this. The reality is there's all kinds of possibilities and contingencies that we're saying I do to that is part of what marriage is. So the one thing is that relationship with parents, and when you get married, It changes it because before it's just your own parents, right? Now with the marriage, it's both of you with both. So there's a shared responsibility, shared respect, all those things. One of the best examples I've ever seen of that is our daughter-in-law's mom and stepdad.

Just to make it easy, Claire and Linda. Linda's mother was dying of cancer and they had her in their home for her last days. They had hospice services, but they were the primary caretakers. The night that she died, we were there. and I was able to observe how they cared for her.

The tenderness, the absolute love and tenderness that both of them exhibited to her was phenomenal. It was just an honor and a privilege to be there to see that. And to watch Jessica's stepdad taking care of his mother-in-law in this way was really amazing. And I think a real good example of the kind of honor that scripture talks about.

As you look at it, it is going to mean different things in different situations. on my grandfather and grandmother on my mom's side. My grandmother died first and my grandfather lived on for another seven years. For my mom and actually for us grandkids as well, the grandfather was the one to care for. So it could be one, both, the other, and you don't know. So it's interesting. Scripture addresses it, but you don't know the magnitude of it. What might this mean? What might this mean? The next kind of continuum we have down below there is the headship in the home. As each of us is born, you've got the headship and the home is for both mom and dad being there.

The husband and father, it may not be in some cases. In some cases, it may be mom is the one who's in charge of the home, raising the kids. Are you speaking of a single parent home? Right. It might be one of various situations. It might even be because of a disability on the part of the husband and father. An extreme disability would put the mother as head because of the father's inability to take on that role. Again, because accident doesn't use things of that sort. And there's a number of different scenarios there. But the one that scripture would point to as the biblical ideal is that the husband and father is the headship in the home. Then what happens at the wedding, the marriage, is there is a transfer.

I walked Becky up the aisle, which took me a while to get used to. A long time. I walked Becky up the aisle and what was I doing? I was transferring the headship over to Kurt. It was more than just part of the ceremony. I was saying, Kurt, you're now her head.

And that transfer then takes place. Then his children are brought into the home. Then you've got the father as a headship over the children. As children marry and leave home, then there's the transfer to the husband, as I gave the instance here where Kurt now takes over as the head.

Both of our boys are married and have four and a half grandkids with them. So there is a situation here. They are establishing their own home. They are husband and father. Then you have assistance from the children, even at that stage. the headship in the home. And that can be a real tough one. How do I help dad when dad needs help but he's still the head? That can be a tough one. Because there can get to be a point where he can't do it.

I'm curious. So you've got some kind of, we talk about life stages, you've got kind of multiple transfers that go on. I don't know if any of you have ever heard of the Oreo cookie generation? Oh yeah. It's where you still have children at home but your parents need help. And that was where we were at. But your mom, right? Yes. Still with kids at home.

That's tough. It is real hard because Both for sons and daughters, but particularly for daughters, you really feel that squeeze. desire to care for your ailing parent, but you still have this family at home that needs your time and attention as well. And it's a really hard thing. It's very stressful and I don't think I did so very well. Karen finally had to tell me, you need to not go see your mom as much as you have been because you're going to end up in the hospital. And that wouldn't have done anybody any good. You want to support the assistance, but at the same time you need to stay a family too. It gets to some tough situations and it keeps changing.

We're in a situation now where all three of our kids are married. We've got grandkids and of course there's relationship there that we don't want to ignore. It turns out both Nancy's folks have gone home to be with the Lord, but my folks are both still around. They're over on the Northern California coast, and my dad will be 81 in May. So they're both around, and yet they're getting to places where they need a little more assistance. As it turns out, my youngest brother is the one who is closest to me.

Bearing the burden of that assistance could be a great part. Those are all things to be worked out. You look at the stages. Some of the things that have happened, no way would we guess that that's the way it's going to happen. You just wouldn't know. Yet that's how it's turned out.

So looking at this, kind of the things to look at in terms of, what am I signing up for when I say I do? Or as you've already said, I do. What did I sign up for? What did I say I do to? What did I sign up for? And in reality, if you're looking ahead to the wedding and ahead to this saying of I do, It is helpful from a biblical standpoint to look out there and say, what does scripture say about these things? What needs to be in my mind as I'm saying I do that I understand it?

And to ponder those ahead of time, recognizing those possibilities. I think a lot of guys, maybe even gals, will do this. They'll say, I'm exiting here. And that may be something that they keep in their mind, or maybe in some cases they express it. If this happens, I'm out. If this goes on, I'm bailing.

But instead, recognizing that the marriage relationship is an embracing of these things, even all the possibilities that go along with that. And then once in the relationship you find out how things work out and you find out what this means and what that means.

We had an instance where our son Randy, just a little bit beyond one year old, meningitis infection and you know sitting there looking at him in the hospital it wasn't looking very good and you know they the first thing is they told us it's meningitis and of course that's what my dad's dad died so I'm I'm floored but then the next thing he says well you know there might be some you know damage from this and we don't know what it is you know and we don't know how he's seeing us right now even There was some major damage. He really doesn't like the sound of a vacuum cleaner. That was it. And after that treatment he doesn't care for needles in hospitals.

But there are things you don't know. It was possible, and I think the doctors were trying to get us ready for the possibility that you may have a kid that's a special needs kid for the rest of his days. So you don't know what you're going to end up signing up for. Even though a kid is born healthy, you may end up with something later on.

So all these possibilities are out there, and in the midst of that, recognizing that Even honoring parents has a transition character to it, a responsibility aspect to it. It means something from the time you're first born and little all the way to the very end of their life or yours, whichever comes first. The headship in the home is the one that goes through transitions and may go through different stages there. of who is head of household and I put down here husband and father, husband and father and circumstances may happen where that even that gets changed.

Nancy's dad went home first so mom's alone. And when you are the adult child caring for your elderly parent. If you have siblings, that can lighten the load if the others are willing to share it. In my circumstance, my mom lived nearest my younger sister for a large portion of the time, and then she moved up by us. And yet, when mom was at her sickest point, the three of us were really able to share, not, our mom was in the hospital, so there was not physical care of her, but we were able to share the load of responsibility for her insurance, her health care, All the expenses, the things that were ongoing, we were able to share that load and distribute it, and it was really good. And as Fern pointed out, right now his younger brother is the one who is, they live right next door, and so they're able to do things when mom and dad need the help.

And we're three states away, so we don't have the opportunity to do that as much. Even a part of this means that our vacations get taken up with kind of dealing with this responsibility. So that's a key thing and it's important just for people whether they can ideally do so before they step into the marriage, just recognizing this is what it means. Or it may be, and even if you have Plenty of prior understanding. You still don't know how it's exactly going to work out. But just a recognition that you're marrying into a joint responsibility. How do we do this?

It can place some extraordinary loads on a family depending on how this works out. I'm going to put a bail clause if it's in there. But also, it brings up questions, how do I be ahead of household with my, for example, Nancy having a lot of care responsibilities for her mom? How do I be a head of household in Nancy's head knowing that she also has to invest time in caring for her mom?

It can bring some issues to bear in terms of how do we communicate, making communication a priority. Something has just changed, let's talk about it. So getting that understanding. make some really immense stresses on the marriage relationship if there is not common understanding.

Assumptions. Oh, we would handle it this way. We would do this. You ever had the experience, I thought you were, you know, I didn't think that, you know, those kinds of expressions. And what it is is we're expressing and getting out, here's what our assumptions and thinking was. And what happens, we find some kind of a disconnect and we're trying to readjust. We're trying to get some understanding there. Those are the kinds of change points where it's going to be, you know, something to deal with. And some of them are going to be, you know, hardly a problem at all. Others of them could be a major, major problem.

One of the things that goes along with this, and I don't have it down here, but in any situation, whether it's your own household or any household for which you may have responsibility, is to get the legal documents in place. That's something I highly recommend.

First is in your own situation, and this could be applicable to any other that you might need to step into. something in the way of a will or a trust document, or at a minimum, if you're going to rely on the state succession laws, to have an understanding about how things are going to get distributed. Understand what the state laws are, you're saying? Not just that, but also an understanding within the family of how things are going to be dealt with. It can work out okay without a legal will or trust if everything is handled properly, but you may need it.

But even if that document isn't there, you don't want some crazy squabble over things. Kids make it tougher, too. Once you get kids, you've got to figure out what your wishes are for them. Yes. We found that to be an interesting exercise to go through. That's important too, but it can be a real head scratcher sometimes.

Then you're looking at health care power of attorney and you're looking also at financial power of attorney. In the case of Nancy's mom, We had the documents in place for the health care and financial, and we ended up needing them both. One instance that came up, Nancy's mom went in for an operation. She came back out, but before she was out from under the anesthetic, they said, we've got to take her back in.

And Nancy having the directive in advance about what her mom does and doesn't want to have happen, and having the power of attorney, was able to look at it, make a quick decision. Where do I sign? She knew exactly what her mother would want. She signed it and they were right back in.

Other, if it wasn't for that, it would mean you have to wait until she gets out from underneath the anesthetic and have to do something and by then more damage may have occurred. Well she would have had to have her leg amputated. Yeah. And that's what she didn't want.

So Nancy had no question what her mother wanted and she had the legal ability to just do it, and it was done. So anyway, you need to get that in place. And then a living will, and this is the instance that Nancy's mom passed along. If I am incapacitated, but something needs to be done, I want this, I don't want that, etc. And Nancy had that cleared. So having a will or trust document, or if you don't have those, intestate succession but still some understanding so things aren't left in a puzzling or squabble. And so then health care power of attorney, financial power of attorney, and a living will. You want those four things in place.

And you need that for the couple, yourself. You need that for anyone else for whom you might have responsibility, aging parents included. In some cases it may also include other, like aunts, uncles, depending on how the family is structured. Health care, power of attorney, financial power of attorney, living will and what is it for? Well, you've got a will or trust document or intestate succession with an understanding that you've got health care, financial power of attorney, and a living will.

They've got those four things to cover. You need to have that for yourself. You need to have it for anybody else for whom you might have some responsibility. It is really good to have that taken care of and clearly communicated. You have the documents in the appropriate people's possession where they know about it.

I got in a situation here two years ago where I had been told there was a will and found out that there was none. I had also been told that I was in the will, the executor, which because the will was never made, I was not. And the attorney who had carried things partly through the process was out of town for weeks. So anyway, this ended up being a major headache and delay and all kinds of things. and so having those things communicated and people understand you know you understand that this is what you're taking on and here's the documents and by the way something that we have just observed with the generation above us and I don't know yet whether that is typical just as you age or if it's typical of that particular generation but we have found that they tend to be a little secretive And they don't give you all of the information that you need.

And so you're going along working on one premise, one understanding of what the situation is. And then they sort of leak out this next piece of information and you go, oh, okay. And it requires a change of direction or the way you would handle a particular thing. So, again, I don't know if it's typical just of that generation or if it is typical of people as they age. Yeah, I don't know.

So, something just to kind of keep in the back of your mind. There can also be difficulties when there is a need to get something in place but the person won't recognize it, doesn't want to talk about it. I've encountered situations here where people tell me I've got this problem with my father, uncle, etc. Those can be real tough ones to work through. And you may even have instances where you can't get it done, but to the extent that you can, those are the documents that need to be in place. Now, if it's a simple situation, there's even software, and that's frankly what we used, and it worked fine. If you've got a more complicated situation, Either because it's more financially complex, maybe you've got siblings that have tensions between them. I've seen nightmares with that. Take whatever care you need to get the legal advice that you need if things appear complicated. Either because the financial situation is complex or because the family situation is complicated or both.

In one instance, the engineering firm that I work for, we were called in because there were three sisters who had inherited an incredibly valuable piece of property. But they were constantly squabbling and suing and countersuing, all three sisters, constantly squabbling and countersuing each other and going to the courts and the lawyers just non-stop.

And finally the judge says, I'm sick of seeing you people. And what he did is he appointed an attorney and he says, you take care of this, divide this thing up, I don't want to see these sisters again. And so he appointed an attorney. The attorney brought us in to make a plan for the engineering side of it, the planning side of it. Didn't he even go so far as to say, if you come before me again, I will take it over and I will dispose of this property if I see it? Yeah. He really didn't want to see him again. So anyway, it ended up getting dealt with by that kind of thing. You want to avoid that as much as possible and one reason for having those documents in place is to avoid the thing where you're going to court. Like Nancy's mom with the health situation, if that had gone to court, her mom would not have gotten her wishes.

What do you think about long-term care insurance? Long-term care can be very expensive. $3,000 to $5,000 a month is not uncommon. So someone may have saved away some bucks. And so the need for long-term care in some way of dealing with that is real. And the amounts can be staggering. The long-term care insurance approach helps make sure that they'll get some hopefully reasonable care. If you don't have some provision for it, the difficulty is that you start relying on some pretty small funds and the level of care may not be what you hope for.

I think what I have heard about it is that it can be a very good thing. It also isn't cheap. No, but it's still cheaper than ongoing care. I think a few different things. One is people need to look at the possibility of need for it. Some people, maybe you're of a particular stock, but these people always last a long time and they keep going, keep ticking. in which case it would be money not well spent.

But not everybody has that as a background. And that part of it may be, how am I doing? Well, but I think too, you know, we look at diseases like Alzheimer's and you probably can't get long-term health care insurance once you already have that money. As far as I know, there's not a really good predeterminate test to see if you're a candidate for that disease. There are some prior indicators.

And I think you've got to take a look at it. What's the likelihood that I'm going to need this? So you don't endorse it or dismiss it out of hand. It just depends on the situation. You've got to look at it. I certainly wouldn't want to go either way as always do this or always do that. But you want to take the time to take a look at it.

You know, if you think of it, in biblical times there wasn't any such thing. And so honoring your parents included that you take care of them. And people didn't have even multi-room households. So your mom and dad are going to be in here if they're still around.

So, you know, it's certainly a modern complication. On the other hand, caring for an aging parent can be highly stressful in the home. It can be highly stressful if somebody else is taking care of them. It's a little different now because the level of care available with modern medicine is not something you, you know, but it's so expensive.

Yes. You can't buy it in the home necessarily, right? But you wouldn't not want them to have access. Yeah. So, it kind of gives it a different So that's something I think you should seriously take a look at and see what does it look like. And make some determination, and Nancy's point is well taken, once you're into the Now she needs it and you can't buy the insurance. It's like with medical insurance. You don't wait until you get an injury or disease to try to get it. You need to look at it in advance.

It is a way of carrying out this responsibility. And don't you think too, Gary, your point about the fact that there's so much medical care available these days. There's treatments that can extend a person's life for a really long time. maybe not with the quality of life that that person wants. And I'm not talking about supporting euthanasia at all, but going back to advanced directives and health care powers of attorney things, knowing what that person wants.

My mom had a do not resuscitate on her chart because she had had bypass surgery And for that particular surgery, they saw the sternum in half. At that time, they didn't. Well, it never healed. And so she was afraid somebody would come in, do compression on her chest, and kill her doing that. And just the thought of it mortified her.

I knew that she had this DNR. I think knowing what that person wants. If you have cancer, do you want to go through chemo radiation surgeries? Think of it, we have had a high profile legal case recently because they didn't know what this particular woman wanted. Different parts of this complicated family structure were squabbling, going to court, the whole thing is a nightmare. What you're trying to do is resolve what did this person want and the reality is you have to make the sub-judge's decision. It's a hard decision to make. And what the person actually wanted is probably indeterminate. Right. Can't tell. Probably never thought about it. Yeah.

So that's why, as much as possible, being able to get these things down ahead of time, getting preferences down, thinking things through. It's one of the reasons we talk about the life stages thing, is both when you're getting married, recognizing what it could mean, and that that's a part of I do. And as you are in the marriage, recognizing that the best thing is talking about it ahead of time if you can. Some family members may not allow it. But the best thing is talking about it ahead of time if you can.

And getting some understanding. Getting some things down on paper if that's what needs to happen. And mention some instances where it certainly does. I had a friend advise me once. My mom was getting older. It was shortly after my dad died. But she was still in relatively good health. And this friend said, Find out now what she wants. Before you are in the situation, find out what she wants. Because then there's not a pressure. And it doesn't feel like, gosh, I can't wait to get rid of you. Because that isn't the point. I was going to say, you never know how.

I saw when my Nana died, my mom had a couple sisters and one that was a little bit disengaged from the family. I think she had like a DNR and she had cancer, so she kind of had laid out what she wanted and everything, but you never can predict how someone's going to act when a parent dies and all of a sudden they say, well, I want that china. Because my mom's one sister, they kind of knew. And she did get a little ugly. Luckily, my nana had pretty well specified what went to who, just material things.

But you just never know how people are going to act. You may all get along great, and then there's a tragedy or a long, slow, painful death. You just don't know how they're going to be, sadly. I think it's tough if there's any, you know, children who have had divorces and have children with other, you know, there's all these branches. But if that isn't resolved, it could be a mess, right? If it's not fairly solved.

You want the Nativity set down. It's kind of a family joke. Yeah, it's funny, in some instances you'll run into something that may have been valuable to the person and nobody wants it. Right. And in other instances where several people are fighting over it and hopefully something more in between, I'd like this, but if you want it, go ahead. That's true. You know, we actually ran into that.

I wasn't there when my father's mother died. There were a lot of family members there and that was the good time to divide everything out because people would come from out of town. And they would say, what about this? Does anybody want this? And nobody would say anything. And then finally somebody would say, well, if nobody else wants it, I'd like it. And you know, they ended up no arguments. over anything. And that was nice.

Not that my grandmother had all that much, but again, it's the nativity sets that have special memory for some reason. So it's a perspective. It's a perspective before you get into the merit. recognizing the range of things that you're signing up for, and that's a part of the I do, as possibilities. It's a part of the I do.

A marriage may last for decades and decades and decades. My grandparents on my mom's side weren't married until the early 30s. My grandmother was around until a week after my grandpa's 90th birthday. They've been married for a lot of years. My aunt and parents have been married for 60 years now. A short marriage. Well, your grandfather was married twice. His first wife died of tuberculosis. And so it was a very short marriage.

Yeah. And then the next one was for decades and decades. Right. So, you know, we don't know exactly what we're signing up for. Right. But it's, you know, Paul says, you know, husbands unconditionally love your wife. Not lover, no. Here's the X, Y, and Z exit, you know, plan.

So, looking at what to hit, and then as you're going through it, recognizing that there are these stages, Scripture does address them, and responsibilities that are there as a contingency. You have a responsibility for this and this and this and this and this and this, depending.

And as much as possible, talking about those things ahead of time. If you wait until the situation occurs, sometimes documents that you need to have in place, like the question you asked, insurance policies. Talking about the insurance policies ahead if that's needed. Getting issues settled about pieces of property.

It's not uncommon to have things that are non-liquid be substantial. How does that get dealt with? And you can end up with a situation, if you haven't thought about it ahead of time, where nobody gets what they want. Because you have to end up selling it to satisfy the parties getting their portion of it.

So those are the key things to pass along here. There's one other thing that we have here is priority of responsibility. And this is important for a few different reasons. But first of all, your own household. And that's Paul's directive to Timothy, being responsible within your own household. The second one is parents and children, or direct lineage. is a key responsibility. In other words, obviously honoring my parents is key.

Now the next one is grandchildren next in lineage there. And then after that we've got uncles, aunts, cousins. And then after that is the church. In other words, the church is not to be there to pick everything up and support everything. So is the church to be there? But there is a priority of responsibility for caring for these things, these needs that stand within the family structure to the extent that it's there. You mean government isn't in there? Yeah, it's interesting.

What ends up happening is that as families have fallen into disrepair, if you will, as the church has not stepped up to help, government has increasingly stepped in to take on those roles. But that's not the biblical ideal. It's not the biblical ideal. Ultimately, responsibility within the family, immediate and then extended family, and responsibility with the church is the biblical picture.

So in this priority, the own household, that wouldn't include children since children are on the next. So that's pretty much your spell. But what I'm talking about is those within your immediate household. Okay. Your instance. In your instance, you've got the two of you and you've got the boys, right? So those are the ones in your own household. I don't think the dad counts. Dad doesn't count? No. Okay. Bow wow here.

Parents and children direct lineage and this is when they're out of the household immediate headship. that that responsibility is there. Then grandchildren. Nancy and I have a neighbor across the hall. She's well into her 90s and has no living children. Her husband is gone. So she has no descendants.

She ends up having a niece that's the one that we've been in contact with on several occasions. to help deal with this. And interestingly, we're across the hall neighbors, so we end up kind of stepping in and helping, including this last week. Really on a rare occasion. But we've done so even in the last week. 1030 at night. Oh, I don't know where my home is. So you can end up with some pretty complicated situations, but in that instance, it's neat. to see this niece recognizing that she doesn't have any kids. There's no husband around. There's no descendants. I'm as close as it gets. She kind of watches after her and sees her from time to time and makes sure everything's going okay.

It's just kind of an important thing to look at. What has happened in our culture is a lack of recognition of what the scripture would already have in place, and so frequently people who should be stepping up to it in the society are not, and more and more the government ends up dealing with these things. Not just where there's nobody, but where there's nobody who will step up to it. then what that does is it reinforces that the government is going to take care of it. And so the sense of responsibility ends up getting more and more lost and polluted. Okay, that's the life stage.

Thoughts, questions? I was going to say, and you may address it in another class, but Gary and I did our will and everything, and it was kind of weird to think about. I think we did it before Daniel was even born, so we're thinking, well, any other children or whatever. I think for me, and this is something you guys will probably have to come across, trying to figure out guardianship for your children.

Yes. But it's just horrifying to think about. Yes it is. Do you remember that? That's what I'm saying, yeah. Oh yeah, I mean it was so difficult. about that, but it's so important to have that. I mean, I know when I was in high school, my choir director and his wife got killed in a head-on collision, and their two girls were in the back seat.

Actually, one of them lives here in Fort Collins now, but they had... Well, I do think they did have guardianship, but it was someone who lived up in North Dakota, and you know, the girls had to be uprooted. So we tried to take that into account. You know, we want someone who lives here so our kids wouldn't have to move, and we want someone who's a Christian. You know, we had plenty of good prospect that they were not Christian. And we thought, what do we do?

You want someone that, if it's not a family member, because sometimes you need to step outside the family, You still want your children to grow up knowing their families or someone who will make sure that they keep the family contact. And this is also something important to revisit from time to time. As you think about it, what circumstances would change Right. Like having a third kid, we're like, ooh, I wonder if Lou and Jane still want to take that.

Now they've moved, they're in Durango, so it's kind of like, it's a little uprooting, still Colorado, but yeah. Because we almost, I thought, my best friend would probably be the right person, but then you think, what if we don't become friends anymore? I mean, she and I have an unwritten thing, because her brother is hers, and she said, would you please make sure Just keep tabs on them. Hopefully it will never come to that.

That's a tough thing as you have kids to think about. You bring up a good point too about the need. You look at it and you think of your kids. How do I want my kids to turn out? What responsibility do I have there? Who would I want to pass that along to if I wasn't around? And so those are big decisions. You're saying, okay, God's priority here is if I'm around I would do this and I want that. But if I'm not around, who would take that to heart?

Who would I trust to be my kid's parents? And you don't want to burden them with financial responsibility. So you get insurance to make sure they're covered. And you look at it and you want to supply the financial needs for that. So that has to be a part of the thinking. And at the same time, your primary thing is, I want somebody who really loves these kids and will take their full needs to heart to have them if I'm not in the picture. And it happens. It happens. You know, you have different circumstances. It's surprising.

These are difficult conversations and decisions, whether it's doing your spouse planning or sitting down. We've sat down with pretty much all three sets of our parents. Aren't you the executive for everybody? Please keep it simple. They're just hard conversations. It's not stuff you want to think about. It's not stuff you want to talk about.

Nancy and I sat down one time because various people said, if something happens to us, will you take care of the kids? We sat down, we would have a major household that all came to Holy Roots. We don't have that anymore. For a while, it would be like, boy, our place is going to be pouring out kids from the window. Yeah, those get to be, and things can change. We actually had an instance where we had our kids go into people who eventually the marriage blew up on them. So it can be one of those things that you've got to do some rethinking. If you have them going to friends and then the family gets offended. That's the tough one too. That's one of the issues guaranteed.

But you don't have to deal with it if you're dead. You don't, but the rest of them do. But you do. You have to have a conversation with the people you picked as guardians. And you do need to go to your family. And you bring up another good point. Have a conversation ahead of time. Again, this talking ahead, real tough to do, extremely important. Yeah. Extremely important.

It has happened where people have been named as a, you know, you get this, you get that, and people refuse it. I don't want to take on that. When we found out, when we asked your aunt and uncle, it was kind of like, no pressure, but would you mind being the guardian? It's a huge thing to ask somebody.

It is. Of course you don't want to put them on the spot and they feel like they have to say yes because it is also kind of an honor to be asked but it's a huge responsibility. And it's big. And the other thing you've got to ask is what if it actually happened? Well, yeah, because I think Gary's sister asked us and they had three girls and I'm like, it's Brady Bunch. Don't take any danger. Don't start skydiving. How are we going to do that? Yeah, that's right. Do you remember? Yeah, they have three girls now. Wow.

And even just thinking about for myself, I don't know, do I want a DNR? I have a friend right now who's battling breast cancer and she's got two little kids and someone at school who you don't know. I think she'll be okay, but don't know. Then it's like, wow, I don't even know what I'd want.

So this is good as something to think about. It's thinking those things ahead of time. Life is constantly thrusting urgencies at us. The difficulty about this stuff is you need to be talking about it. You need to be thinking about it. You need to keep it ahead of you, not crisis. So you need to think ahead of it, and yet the urgencies are constantly telling us to put it out of the way. Think about it. What's demanding at the moment, the urgencies that are calling for our attention, are not these things.

The things that you need to talk about are also difficult things to talk about. I don't like to sit there and talk about, Nancy, what happens if you and I die and we've got our kids. That's not easy to talk about. So there are two things right off the bat that tend to make these hard to get to. And yet, forget the urgency, the importance is great because they are a reality. And we don't get to call the shots on them. The reality also is that your parents planning depends on their level of responsibility. I mean, it would be very hard to convince them to do it if that's not good.

Right. You're absolutely right. And that's where you take it as far as you can. You may be able to get nowhere. On the other hand, you may be able to be a part of the process and it kind of depends on your relationship with the people, but as much as possible to have things thought through ahead of time.

We're grateful that a lot of our folks have been pretty responsible about that. I've been to think about it as a conversation. It is important. Easily swept aside, easily put off, absolutely essential to keep ahead of it so that you don't end up with a crisis. That's true. Things sometimes happen by complete and total surprise. Usually do. You can count on that. Here I am working away. Nancy's at her Bible study. I get the call from her mom. Dad just dropped out in the yard and don't know what's going on. Did we anticipate it? Nope. None whatsoever. No idea.

So you can have things just suddenly thrust upon you, and now we've got to deal with this. As much as possible, thinking about them ahead of time. Very important. As difficult as it is. Yeah. And you know, here's the silly thing, but making sure that people have phone numbers. Even as simple as that. And of course, today's day and age, we have cell phones. It seems like almost everybody has a cell phone. But the day that my dad died, I was out at this Bible study. We didn't have cell phones back then.

And she didn't have a way to get a hold of me. She had Byrne's work number. Thank goodness. Otherwise, it would have been several hours before I found out, before they were able to call me. So just making sure that people have a way to get a hold of you as best you can.

Exactly. Silly things, but very important when a crisis comes upon you. Thoughts? Questions? A lot of the questions and comments have been really helpful because I think it's one of those things that you need to be asking those questions. You need to be pondering these things and the opportunity to put it off because of what's right in front of you is real easy.

But the urgency, and especially these things are biblical responsibilities. It's not like Burns coming in and saying, you know, I don't know what the Bible says, but here, do this, because I think it's a good idea. It's something where scripture has, and I've got some verses and other blank lines we could put more. Scripture does have a lot to say about it.

And it does have quite a bit of guidance on this thing. And we need to look to look to the Lord's guidance and see what would the Lord have us do here. Is this online too? Not currently, although I will post it. Essentially the scriptures are numerous. I basically drew from the principles and you've got scriptures there that you can dig into.

We've talked about some of them before and studied it explicitly, like Genesis 2.24 and things like that. So, anyway, any questions come up or something, call me if there's anything I can help. Alright, let's pray.

Lord, we thank you that you've provided not only guidance, but also just brought these subjects up so that we can look at things ahead of time and keep in mind that those are there. It minimizes, certainly surprises will happen in life, but minimizes the ghastly crisis that many things can turn into. We also see it as an opportunity. since you do have things laid out where the very life of Christ can be lived out in the middle of difficult situations. We also then become a living example for our kids and others that are involved with us, too. Thank you for the opportunity that you've laid out and these principles in your word. In Jesus' name, amen.