No Separation in Christ
Romans, 8:38-39 · Bob Eckel · Mar 11, 2007
Romans (2005-07), No. 73
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926019592767

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

All right, we're coming to the end of half of Romans, only Roger and Jim and I have pondered this a little bit. We've covered half of Romans in three quarters of the time given to us to cover Romans. So we're going into high gear next week. So Romans 9 begins the second half of Romans, only we've only got six months to do it in.

So we're going to start moving a little more quickly. And we've looked at the schedule. And we're going to get done by the last Sunday in September. And so we're going to be covering more verses each week. And if you want to prepare ahead of time, by the way, people are interested in preparing ahead of time. We have the whole schedule that's available to all of you if you want to see it. But like next week, we're going into Romans 9, we're going to cover the first seven verses, and we're going to cover Romans 9, I believe, in three lessons. So that's going to give you an idea of what the pace is coming up ahead.

So it's not that the second half is less important. It's just that the foundation of Romans 1 through 8 has taken really necessary time for us to really ingest all the ingredients and digest them appropriately for our understanding. And 9 through 11, as you know, really deals with the nation of Israel to a large extent. And so that is an area where, in fact, we can move more quickly, I think, and still get the content well understood in terms of how it relates to both them and to us. What I'd like to do today in terms of ending up the last two verses of Romans 8 is go back, as I think Jim did last week, and begin with verse 31. So Doris, could you read 31 down to the end of the chapter for us? Yes. What shall we then say to these things?

If God before us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own son, but delivered him up for us all, now shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's way? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea, rather than is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ, from tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long. we are counted as sheep with slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen. Class is over.

What can we add to that? Can we actually really do much better in describing the importance and the uplifting nature of that passage? Well, we're going to have to because we've got another 45 minutes to spend together this morning. So let's begin with the last two verses now. King James says, For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us. from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. So, just in summarial form, this is a bold and triumph stand and or a soft pillow for a tired and weary head. So, my question to you, which do you prefer here? These last two verses, for I'm persuaded, there's absolutely nothing that can separate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus. Nothing. Zero.

Is that a bold and triumphant position we sit in? Or is that a soft pillow for a tired and weary head? I think how you answer that question reflects on what's going on in your life right now, right? I can look at both and say I could grab on to either one of those. I think there's no right answer here. It's both. Paul ends these first eight chapters in a bold and triumphant manner. It's a done deal.

But boy, those who are being weary by the ways of the world around them. There's plenty of things that can get us down. In fact, even preparing the lesson for today, I was uplifted by the passages I was studying. having a view from the right hand, through God's grace, to really accept that this is not my eternal kingdom. I always wonder about the people who fear losing their salvation, what they do with it. That's true, isn't it? It's hard to understand how people might feel to conclude that you could lose your salvation by how your environment is impacting your life.

Oh boy. Unless they think it's written to the Jews. Yes, that's right. Margaret raises a point I won't dwell on here this morning. What, Bob, what do you think is a synonym for the word persuaded? Oh, good question, Art. Glad you came to class today. So let's, before we go into persuades the next topic here, but let's finish the first slide if we can get this thing to be responsive, Roger. This is one of the slowest systems I think I've been, and that's not, by the way, a trial and tribulation here this morning. Okay, let's clarify that.

So, you know, in Romans 321 to 521, we really built where we're at right now on a justification by faith concept. Martin Luther's revelation, which is very obvious to those who are in the church age, the early church age, but ultimately need to be revisited 14 centuries later. So justified by faith. Romans 6, buried with him in death, risen with him in new life.

A concept that, by the way, much of the body doesn't grasp. In fact, I had the opportunity just this last week to meet with a Christian health fellowship. which used to be the Christian Medical Society, but now there are so few medical students that come. It's mostly dental students and pharmacy students. I kind of went to share and we discussed a lot of issues that relate to science and medicine and Christianity and things like that. In this concept, I just had kind of a blank face, people looking at me, not quite sure they'd quite heard it that way before.

The idea that not only were our sins forgiven, but the old guy was co-crucified. I mean, it seemed that that was something that these people just didn't grasp. It really wasn't until Darby that actually Roman VI was rediscovered. Darby and Brethren, I mean. And then Brethren lost it, which is incredible. Then the people that rediscovered it forgot it too.

And so we're kind of where we are today. Well, and this concept is absolutely essential to understand to get to the verses we're studying today, are they not? I mean, everything that follows Romans 6 is essentially dependent on Romans 6. That's true, Bob.

I think there's something a little deeper too. I think a lot of churches don't teach this. They don't teach it because I don't think there's any ownership for it. And we don't hear this. And you know, if you think about it, If you look at the rest of the New Testament that is subsequent to Romans, and you don't have this, you're kind of in trouble with a works kind of aspect of the Christian life.

And then when will God be satisfied by our ability to do good works? Now remember, works are important. We never want to discount works, but they're built on faith. And that life is lived out by God's grace through the new creation we are in Christ Jesus. So important. So, so important. Because what we're studying now becomes pale if we don't accept the fact that we're positioned and secure in Him. Romans 7, a very important next step. It's like getting your mother up in the morning, honey.

I'm just teasing you. Anyway, I'm talking about the computer now, not the chapter. So Romans 7, that old and new struggle that we kind of all experience, and then finally the spirit led life. So that kind of sets the stage art for your question, which is the next slide. There it comes. Oh, it came up all at once. All right. Roger, see I'm applying a little bit of your call-ups there. Those are cute.

All right, to be persuaded is an interesting term. What comes to mind here? I think there are four interpretations possible from persuade, and the word is not used all that much in the New Testament. It can mean to induce, to believe, to trust, or to know. And I think which way you interpret this really has a lot to do with how you carry away a message from the verse in which it's used. So let's go back and look at 35 and 36, which Doris read for us this morning.

What shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword? As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter. Now, think about where the verses we're looking at are carrying us.

Verse 38, for I am persuaded, and actually in 37 we see all these things we are more than conquerors. Okay, so we're now being declared as conquerors over all these potential adversities that show up in our life, and now we come, for we are persuaded. Does that seem like it's something that is kind of trying to convince us?

I mean, I think it's a stronger interpretation. You think about being persuaded. You've got somebody kind of talking to you, and you're thinking about a white Ford or a blue Chevy, and they use car a lot, and you're kind of being persuaded to pick the Ford. Yes, Karen. I think the King James may fall short here a little bit. So convinced, I didn't have up on the list.

But to know really carries that same implication. This is solid knowledge. So this persuasion isn't some sort of kind of being coaxed in that direction and finally making up your mind on soft grounds. This is not an emotional decision. This is knowledge.

So 2 Timothy 1.12 is another nice use of this verb. For this reason I also suffer these things, nevertheless I am in shame, for I know whom I have belittled and am persuaded. Okay. persuaded, connected to know, very linked in terms of the interpretation of the verse, that he is able to keep what I have committed to him until that day. With a hymn, right? It sounds like that. Okay. So where do you find yourself on this truth?

I think, you know, you can think about being persuaded by gentle coaxing, but I think the term is more solidly placed in knowing for sure. Donna? How about persuaded through the trials and all the things that are still going on? So is that kind of a gradual process then? I would probably take that position.

You know that you're overcomers in the trial, not that you go through the trial and then you're an overcomer at the end, but it's really the process. And during the spirit working through those tribulations, you become persuaded. So the truth is founded, then we're persuaded in the truth by the experience. Is that the kind of paraphrase? Yeah, that's a good idea. Like that? And we're declared as conquerors, now we're told that. Yeah, because how many new believers understand that concept and believe that? I mean, truly believe it.

Probably not too many. Without those trials, as Donna mentioned, that we all go through. There's no way you can come to that understanding. But I think the Lord is faithful. In us, as a believer, it's a building relationship with the Lord. He knows in fact to sustain us through all things. Right, no matter what.

You know, if you think about it, what else can we expect from the system we live in, right? I mean, think about it. Remember, this is foreign soil for us. It's not home here. business address. Okay, good, good comments. So now let's look at these things that were separated, or that are unable to separate us from the love of God. All right, signal's been given, there it is. Patience is not one of those Christ-given virtues that I've experienced yet. Okay.

So death comes up. This is going to get back, I think, Carol, to your question here as I'm going to pursue this with you this morning. Do we fear death? Anybody fear death in this room? I mean, maybe you wouldn't admit it if you do. So if you think about it, just from the human experience, how do we fear death? How do each one of you fear death? I fear death in one way really only, and my late wife said the same thing to me.

That's how you get there. How do we get there, right? I think we all ache and have pains. We all have a little bit of anxiety, which is a sin in its own right. We're going to come back to that later this morning. But this fear of death, how am I going to get there? Is it going to be traumatic? Is it going to be painful? What are the circumstances?

We can't be bogged down by that. God's got his own timing worked out for us and we trust him through the whole thing. Sharon just wanted to go and be with the Lord. She just wanted it to go as smoothly as it possibly could. And praise the Lord. She became comatose the last couple of days and went home to be with Him in a very soft and gentle way. It was neat, because that was her desire.

So all that aside, my fear is how we're going to get there. Sometimes you think about a traumatic death and you think, oh my goodness gracious, and then you think, man, that was quick. You're out of here pretty quickly. But we don't fear death as believers, do we? Do we fear death? What? Well, I missed that. What was that? We're already there. I see you've incorporated the truths of Romans 6. This is wonderful. Roger, we're making progress here. All right.

So as believers then, this favorite verse concept can go a little bit awry at times, but so much of the scripture is my favorite verse. How can you say this is my favorite verse? Many of us turn to things that give us a peace in this whole death issue. I just have a couple of lists, and you can think about what ones you might want to share. William R. Newell cites this, and these are good verses, and actually Roger covered this a couple of weeks ago.

For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil, and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

I mean, boy, Satan's done. It's a done deal. You know, we live in an atmosphere where sin surrounds us day in and day out. Our own atom nature is filled with sin. And clearly Satan is the prince of this world, is he not? But yet he's a done deal as far as God's concerned.

So we can grab onto that confidently that our fear of death is not appropriate for us to fear, meaning not the process of getting to death, which I don't think God wants us to fear either, but clearly what happens after death is something we don't need to fear.

Just parenthetically, back to Carol to answer your question more specifically, two weekends ago, or was it a weekend ago? No, it was a weekend ago. Because I came back on Saturday. I was here last Sunday. Anyway, with my brother, keep in mind that talking about spiritual things is off turf. This is not an acceptable thing to do. But he was operating on Thursday.

I had dinner with his wife on both Thursday night and Friday night, and on Friday night the spirit really opened the door and it was very easy to move in through the door. I said to her, does Ed ever talk about what happens after death? She said, yeah, we've had that conversation recently.

So that evolved to the concept that both of them believe that this book, in addition to every other book related to human religion, relates to man. Man wrote this book, therefore it's flawed. So that's their view. So the Muslim faith has its flaws and its strengths, and the Buddhist faith, I mean, that's their view. It's an intellectual kind of saying, this is written by man, and therefore it's flawed. And of course, you know, if you look at the history of the world, the history of the world really reflects the inadequacy of religion in solving the world's problems, doesn't it? If you're looking as a skeptic who's on the other side of salvation. So that's their view. There's no right answer. Everybody's got their own thing. They can do whatever they want, and they can come to their own truth. But dealing with now death ahead of him, they have no answers. But for the next hour, I shared the gospel repeatedly in a very kind of very indolent, calm, and conversive manner.

And she comes from a Roman Catholic background. She thinks the Da Vinci Code is kind of the answer to the whole Roman Catholic flaw. So I don't know if you've read that, Margaret has, and I haven't read it. I couldn't read the whole thing, I only read to a point.

So keep praying for Ed Fichotta. Clearly they're talking about it, so at least there's a step in the door perhaps. Mike, Donna told me, just keep presenting Christ to the Catholic. I mean, the Catholic knows about Christ. They just don't know that what he's done is complete. And so maybe continuing to reiterate that, I'm not sure how much time I'm going to spend with them yet physically before it goes home. Who knows?

We each have a day at this time, right? I could go home this afternoon. Part of me kind of wants to do that. So anyway, that's Newell's verse. He didn't say it's his favorite, but that's one in his writings that he quoted. How about a few other ones that many of us kind of think about?

1 Corinthians 15, 54, and 55. So when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, and this is beautiful, death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? How's that one? Talk about a pillow for a tired head, right? That's nice.

And, you know, the verse so often quoted is that in John 3.16. I think I signaled the computer. Roger, sometimes I don't know. There we are. All right. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. We all know this.

And those who believe in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. I mean, there are lots of nice verses to lean on. Fear of death, if you have it, your foundation in the faith needs to be questioned a little bit, because the believer should not and cannot have a fear of death in terms of what happens after death. Remember, this can't separate us from the love of God. Death cannot separate us from the love of God. In fact, where we're going next is, I think, really encouraging, because it relates to our life here.

It didn't set its clocks ahead here this morning. All right. It's not even gone there. Oh, here it is. We got it. See, it's trying to incorporate. Just wait five minutes. That's good. Yeah, that's where we're at. Right there on four. Back one more. So it was incorporating a signal over 30 seconds to still not respond. Wayne, when somebody buys their next home system, bring your old one in. Let's replace this one with it.

Now life. I don't know about you, but life is more difficult than death. I got this great comfort zone about death. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. How about that for a nice verse? But again, as we reflect back on verses 35 and 36, all these issues that can separate us from the love of God and even what we're studying here, how about Philippians 1.21 for a nice answer to that? For me to live is Christ and die is gain. So if your life is Christ, that new nature being lived out, there's an ability to walk above and overcome, be those conquerors that Don has alluded to, that we all are in terms of the trials before us.

What about angels? Angels are defined as... Any other comments on life, in terms of life not separating us from the love of God? Let's ask a question here that's not even on the handout. How could life separate us from the love of God? I mean, think of circumstances. Think of your own life, think of that of people you know, family, friends.

Are there believers that are depressed? Are there believers that commit suicide? Are there believers on anti-psychotic medications? Are there believers that are behind bars? I mean, the issue is life itself can be pretty traumatic. And we have it pretty soft in the lifestyles we've all been able to live.

But we even have... I mean, the atom nature is the same in everybody. So we all got to deal with that. So life can be somewhat overwhelming at times. It's pointed out here, life may be more difficult than death. Life circumstances really, we could probably spend months and months and years and years studying how we deal with life.

The issue is, I've been saved, I'm being saved, and I will be saved. The death deal is I will be saved based on having been saved. But this middle part, I'm being saved, this constant activity of the Holy Spirit molding us to the image of his Son, that's the hard part. Isn't it this, I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live? That's the part on a day-to-day basis that's tough. The issue is, am I saved?

Absolutely. Now how do you live the Christian life? And I think that's one reason that I come to Holly Hills, because My trying to work harder to please God is not the answer to this. It's walking above in the position we've been established. But that still takes on a minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour scenario, doesn't it? Okay, you want to sit back by Avani now? Okay. All right. Well, it's not coming up sequentially either. That's probably my problem, not the computers.

So anyway, this life is, we would all agree, is a day-to-day thing, and it's a challenge for each and every one of us, but we're called to not let this separate us from the love of God. All our trials, all the tribulations. All right, angels. don't realize the life that the Christians in Baghdad and the Middle East go through under persecution. Yes. You know, there's no question about that, Art. The thing is, is that I mean, God knows what he's about in terms of his life lived out in every believer, and we're all called to be positioned in different circumstances. I was kind of reflecting on J. Vernon McGee, who I like very much, and I listen to on the way to work each morning.

And just to give you one perspective, he said, I could never have been a missionary. I wouldn't want to be exposed to the foreign fields. I said, I know there's a great work God could have for me there, but I just like living in, I'm going to paraphrase, like living in Pasadena, California, right?

But think about the ministry. The issue is God has called each one of us to a different mission field. And that's neat because each and every day there's a mission field before us. But I'm not disagreeing, Art. I wouldn't want any of my boys or daughters to be in Iraq right now. I just wouldn't want it. God is sufficient under all circumstances of life to be able to meet the needs for each and every one of us under every circumstances. And I'm not, again, belittling what's happening there and comparing it to what we have to go through on a day-to-day basis.

But you're right. There are people who have been under great trials and tribulations for a long time. You almost look back at the early church and you think, actually, the church was probably more alive then in many ways than it is today because of the trials and the persecutions that they had to face for their faith. Do we pray for more persecution? Absolutely not. We all have our security blankets. We love them. But if persecution comes, we have a faith that can be lifted up above that. We still like having our house warm and clothing to put on our bodies and meals three times a day.

The cross is equal for all circumstances. You know, what came up the other night at this Christian health fellowship, there was an African American girl who was kind of getting into the issues of race and is God fair and all this kind of thing. And I just reminded her that, you know, in this world, there will always be injustices. The Calvary makes everybody equal. So as believers, we need to return to the cross and what the cross really means. So we all have different lives, different circumstances, different races, different cultures.

But Calvary is the great equalizer, isn't it? I'm not sure that was helpful, but anyway, that's what I've run across. All right, let's continue now. Angels is listed here now. I sent my colleagues who co-teach this class an email, and Roger responded. I think Jim's out of town, actually. He's traveling.

Angels, these are messengers of God. And the question to the class is, to what group of angels does Paul refer to here? Are these gods devoted, or are these fallen angels? Does anybody envision the gods angels who are looked at as messengers to kind of... And by the way, I think in terms of Scripture, what angels are doing today is a little unclear, at least to me and maybe to many of us, exactly how angels work today. We don't want to spend a lot of time on that, but could God's devoted angels or those that remain faithful be a trial or something that separates us from the love of God?

By the way, there are commentators who think that these are God's angels. Interesting, isn't it? I could never get a very good explanation as to why they thought it was. I really don't think so. I don't think we can look at this as God's devoted angels that are ultimately separating us from the love of God. It doesn't make sense. It's kind of like an oxymoron. But we do have examples of a couple of verses I listed here.

Jude 1, 6, "...and the angels in which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, if reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of that great day." Are they under chains right now? Is Satan under chains? I mean, maybe positionally he is, but conditionally he's not, and his angels, I'm sure, are still active, whatever form they take and however they work. And again, I don't think we understand that very well, but we do know that, again, he's the prince of this world, right, Satan? And he's got demons and angels and presumably other powers that influence the earthly system.

2 Peter 2.4. for if God spared not the angels at sin, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into the chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment." So again, that's a statement of their eternity, but it doesn't give us any understanding as to where they operate now. Is Satan in hell now? No. So, these verses are not perfect, but I sense that the fallen angels are those that can separate us from the love of God. It potentially could. Of course, we're told none of these things can.

I mean, that's what we're referring to here. Principalities, in context, authorities, rulers, magistrates, comes from the Greek word arche, which also means the beginning. Interestingly enough, it means the beginning, origins, or first person. That's kind of interesting if you think about principalities. But it kind of gives you an idea of the ruling class, if you will. And I've kind of extended this.

It's a good opportunity for these fallen angels to operate, isn't it, through the principalities and powers of the earthly systems? I mean, that really kind of fits, I think, quite nicely into the angels actually being fallen angels because they do operate.

Well, also, if you look at that whole, all of 38, there's no positive in that whole thing. So why would Paul have put In the midst of all those negatives, why would he have put a positive? That's not how Paul operates. One of the commentators said that the way angels is used in this verse is consistent with a devoted angel, a godly angel.

But I could never quite get to how he came to that conclusion. So Roger gave me another reference which would indicate these are fallen angels. Yeah, it didn't tell you if it would fit. No, it just didn't fit. And Paul is pretty... What he's contrasting, here are the things that would separate you. It makes no sense that angels that follow God's will are going to be against God's will and separate you. Well, if anybody objects to that position, that's fine, but I think right now the best interpretation is that these are fallen angels, not God's angels.

Okay, Ephesians 6.12 is a verse we know well, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and against powers and against the rulers of the darkness. And the reason I put rulers of darkness in bulk, or in bold, is that the evidence here is that that kind of could be a manifestation of fallen angels' activities. I mean, this is really very consistent with how they might be working. Powers really relates to the world system.

And note that the interlinear Greek, the original text said, nor things present nor things to come precedes powers. It's interesting in the King James, I'm not sure what your verse, how about the New American Standard? I didn't go back and look at that. Is powers after things present, things to come? No, powers is before it. Not the New American Standard. Powers is after that.

Yeah, and the King James has it like this, and that's the text I usually use, but maybe I should have changed the order, although I'm not sure that the order really makes that much difference in terms of how we interpret this. Anyway, back to the term powers, dunamis, the same kind of power could be used in the Christian life, actually. The Greek term is not specific to worldly powers.

And think about the world system. What kinds of things come to mind? I just suggest, what about superstition? I know believers who go to the horoscope still. Good luck. I have to kind of bite my tongue every time. I find myself still saying that to people at times. Good luck. I mean, these are just kind of subtle reasons of the way the world system plays out. I have a hard time writing work that will pass around and throwing away cards. I have a hard time writing. I can't say good luck. I don't want to say good luck.

Best wishes? All the best. What do you say? All the best. All the best, yeah. I'm kind of a cop-out, too. Yeah, but it is difficult because somebody is going for an interview for a job or something and you say, so what do you say? Do well? That's kind of what I say. I say, do well. It is hard. It is very hard. God bless you all the time. God bless you? Yeah. You've already been blessed.

You're talking about when we sneeze? You know, I have to share this. I was in an airport in Seattle, I think, or maybe Portland. I can't remember now, maybe Portland. And I was, you know how you're sitting, and I'm just grown up. Somebody sneezes, I say, God bless you, you know. So I said, you know, we're just sitting, all these people were waiting, planes were canceling, there's tons of people. So this older lady sneezed. She wasn't even sitting next to me, she was kind of down, and I just kind of said, God bless you.

Pretty soon, I hear her daughter, who's sitting there with her, why did you let her say that? Why didn't you say something back to her? And so she's saying then, so I'm sitting here and I can hear this whole conversation, and she's this younger daughter, you know, kind of real earthy looking, you know, kind of Portland, Seattle.

Going after her mother, her older mother, and her mother said, Well, that's just a courtesy that people would say. It doesn't really mean anything. It's just a courtesy. People just say it. And she was saying, well, why are you letting her say, God bless you? You should just tell her not to say that. I kind of felt so. I've never said it in public again. I didn't know people would be so offended. This woman was so offended that I said that.

Bless you, right? Not God bless you, right? Bless you? Well, I know God bless you is kind of the implication, but I mean the issue here is I don't want to dwell on this, but the world system we think of as governments like Venezuela or governments like China. I mean, we think of it, Iran, we think of it in kind of world systems that have gone astray, right?

I mean, we have a believer in the White House now, but likely, well, I don't know what's going to follow. But I mean, the issue is world systems generally we don't think of as favorably as we should. I mean, in other words, God asks us to pray for our leaders all the time.

That's really something we're commended to do. But I'm suggesting world systems take on other aspects here that really kind of reflect where people are at. What's their horoscope say for today? If luck comes my way? This issue of the superstitions we all live in. As I thought about this in terms of even bringing up this point, I think there are occasional ones that slip into my life here too. The important thing here is that the Lord Jesus has conquered all of these things, the three things we're talking about here together, the angels, the principalities, and powers.

So Colossians 2.15, having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it, meaning the crucifixion.

1 Peter 3.22, I like here because angels is also part of this, who has gone into heaven, meaning the Lord Jesus Christ, and is on the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

That doesn't mean he's controlling their behavior. This means he's conquered over them. He's spoiled them. He's put them into their correct position. And we as believers, as we walk as conquerors or overcomers, we in fact are taking that same position in terms of what these things do in our lives. Roger, it seems like something happened good there. Things present. How about Joseph? How about Job? No exchange of life there.

In fact, one of my first questions to the Lord Almighty when I'm with him is, how did the people in the Old Testament respond by faith? I mean, God's Spirit clearly was surrounding them, but this issue of, was that Spirit activating Adam? Or how did that work? That's one of my biggest questions I have for the Lord when I see him. But anyway, all that aside, how about Joseph? How about Job? Job is mentioned in the New Testament by the Lord in terms of things that he experienced. What about Stephen? What about Paul? Things present. These are great examples of people dealing with things present in Scripture and that are being overcomers.

Things to come. Good verse in Matthew, all this part of the Sermon on the Mount, you could claim this is Kingdom Age stuff, but I think the principle plays out even today, doesn't it? Therefore take no thought, saying, what shall we eat or what shall we drink, or wherewithal shall we be clothed? For after all these things did the Gentiles seek. Notice that, the Gentiles. For your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things, but seek ye first the kingdom of God, his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself, sufficient unto the day, the evil thereof."

Now this may, if it's Kingdom Age application only, we could say well their meals will be provided if they take on this position that Christ has called him to. Yeah, I'm okay with that. But the idea that God knows our every need, and does that mean believers can never starve to death? No, I don't think so. I mean, it's probably happened over the history of the body that believers have starved. But the issue is the Lord knows that we in fact have these circumstances that come up, and in fact, we should rest on the truth that he knows what's all going on.

Philippians 4.6, be careful for nothing or do not be anxious, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God. That includes fear of the future. A lot of us are motivated by the fear of what's to come. And we all are concerned about our children, our grandchildren, in terms of what kinds of things are going to be occurring in their lives.

Keep in mind that the world system has always been the world system. And we know scripture is prophetically indicating the world ain't going to get any better, right? It's going downhill. But yet God's sufficiency cuts through things present and things to come. There's nothing for us to be anxious about or to fear in terms of how God will be present during those times of trial and tribulation.

The question is, is this outer space someplace or is it related to our atmosphere here? What are your thoughts here on what height relates to? You know, kind of giving extremes of height and depth is just kind of looking at things very tall, things very deep.

I think that's kind of correct, but sometimes you could maybe stretch it a little bit, like 2 Corinthians 10.5, casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. I think that may be over-spiritualizing what's really intended here. I think he's talking about height, meaning ultimate height and ultimate depth.

Looking at extremes, at all extremes of height and depth, those things will not separate us from the love of God. We know Christ is risen at the ultimate height, Colossians 3, 1-3. If you then be risen with Christ, where we're positioned to, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God. We don't know where heaven is, but it's up there someplace, right?

It's not in the depths. We get the idea that hell is somehow deep and down, right? So if we look at that in kind of looking at the spiritual relationship, then we look at—that's interesting. Probably not just physical height, but I came after that. I'm not sure what's going on here. So the contrast is depth, which simply is to contrast it with height. Again, the very simple interpretation is height is very high and depth is very deep.

And we also know, if we want to again get into maybe more of the aspects of what deep could mean, Christ descended and conquered the abyss. Matthew 12, 40, 41, will not look at that. And the beast shall arise from the depths of the sea. I mean, we can kind of look at this in Revelation 13, 1 through 8 goes through a great description of the beast coming out of the depths of the sea.

And let's turn to Ephesians 3, 17 to 19. Whether we interpret this just literally, and just thinking of depth and height, comparing the lowest possible and the highest possible earthly perception of what these things mean, or whether we kind of look at the fact that these carry on more spiritual connotations, Who's got that 17th or 19th Ephesians 3? That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith and that ye being rooted and grounded in love may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height.

19. And to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge that you might be filled with all the fullness of God. See there, I think height and depth doesn't necessarily have anything spiritual connected to it. It just kind of encompasses all of that we know in terms of above and below, and actually when we're filled with Christ's love, those things really are put into the right perspective.

And then any other creature, and Gil, I just kind of quoted him here, this takes into the in the whole compass of created beings in heaven, earth, and sea, and most strongly expresses the inseparable-ness of the saints from the blood of God by anything or creature, whatever. Nothing in the whole universe can separate us, any created being." So this could be, presumably, a fox. But it could also be the angels.

I mean, again, I think he's just repeating himself through this to emphasis, that nothing, and then away. Okay, now the kind of the meat of the verse which really gives us again great solitude and rest in what's being presented here is that shall be able, that means that nothing's ever going to be able to do this.

It's future tense. So this is an aorist active to separate, meaning that's because of something that's been done. So there's nothing now or in the future that can separate us because it reflects back on why, in fact, it can't separate us. The separation is aorist, meaning it's based on a one time in history event. and it's an active verb here. So it's interesting to look at the verb structure here, shall be able's future but to separate's eris actet. So this is an ongoing truth that will pretend into the future that nothing ever will be able to separate us.

And it separates us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. McGee calls salvation a love story, which is kind of a neat way to phrase this. 1 John 4, 9, 10 is, In this was manifested the love of God towards us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. In John 10, 29, it says, My Father which gave them Me is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

This is grace. This is grace really played out to its extreme, that at the end of Romans 8, now, all the things that have preceded this has positioned us in a position to be confident of the fact that there's nothing that can separate us from the love of God. Wow.

Nothing. death, or life, or things to come, or things present, or height, or depth, or principalities, or powers, or angels. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. So I think just something to pause and think about here a little bit. His relationship with us is unchanged by our failure. If you really want to put this on in terms of the day-to-day garb we all bring to the table. Our failure is often, isn't it, in terms of our thoughts, our deeds, our lack of thoughts, our lack of deeds, but yet this statement doesn't give us a license to fail, but what it does is make us recognize that this transcends anything we do that falls short of God's glory. Just to conclude, we're positioned in His love forever.

Romans 8.31 is what we began reading here this morning. Doris read for us this morning. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Thoughts, comments here to come to the end of Romans 8.

Just a couple of things. I was thinking about this last part. No man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand. I've heard people who believe you can lose your salvation say, yeah, but I can jump out of his hands. The other thing I was thinking is that was great the Lord had Paul write all those things because instead of just saying nothing can separate us from God. If he just said that, I can see people saying, yeah, but that's just on this earth. What about in the space?

So he just covered everything. I think those are just great verses to say to somebody who's concerned about that. You've just covered everything. I just really appreciate that. Are we being asked to understand this? We're being asked to believe it, aren't we? What I share with my sister-in-law is the fact that God says in His Word that the Holy Spirit read the Bible, not men. and that the Holy Spirit worked through men over time to make the Bible what it is today. In addition, all the prophecy that's been fulfilled and just the consistency of Scripture in terms of what we now understand in context where we'd be representing a book that really has truth as its foundation. But this is an intellectual argument, right? God asked us to respond by faith. It would have been a stumbling block if the Holy Spirit hadn't used man to write the scripture. The non-believer would really have a heyday with man. True. That's our perspective anyway, not theirs. But clearly it's our perspective.

I was going to say, am I mystified by the fact that prophecy He doesn't do it for the intellectual, because there it is. I mean, this was told so much ahead of time, and half of them, yeah, they don't believe it. Well, in other words, the unbeliever is blinded. You know, he's blind. And that's the hard thing. I actually was talking about that when we were at the church today, how the unbeliever is blinded. And you don't really, I mean, you don't, in a way you want him to see, but he's blinded. And it has to be a work of God. And that's what's so wonderful. It relieves you the pressure. I just got to make him believe. With your brother and your sister-in-law. You got to make him believe. You can't. He's the one that does it.

I'm sure maybe many of the rest of you have experienced this, but there are two people in my family who were either doubting the the faith or ultimately doubting the security of their faith that through death and dying ultimately came to be saved. And I'm confident that I'll see them both in heavenly places. So, you know, death may be working now in Edinburgh the next months, a year or two, in a way that we don't know how and when, but we'll see. Death is a way of getting people's attention, right? I mean, we all think a lot of assumptions, and you think about these tragic deaths that occur, you know, unexpectedly, and, you know, think just that fire in New York a couple of days ago.

Eight children. Of course, we know kids are... No, it's now not. I mean, just things that happen all the time, where people suddenly leave this planet, and we take for granted that we have another day yet to live. I heard somebody say once that the fear of old age is the false assumption that we have another day to live. And that's good, because remember, fear isn't part of this agenda we talked about today. All of us say we don't fear death in terms of what the consequences are. But what we fear is how we're going to get there. But God says, even trust me through that. But all that aside, it's been wonderful.

We've, again, taken a lot of time for the first eight chapters of Romans. Hal Lovam began this whole process, and Jim and Roger and I have continued it. And now, again, we're going to shift into a little higher gear as we think about the rest of the book in the next six months. appreciate any input from anybody about how we're covering this and what needs to be emphasized. Let's close in prayer. Father, we're grateful today to look at the end of the first half of the Book of Romans and really recognize that the order of the books of the Bible, I think, are given to us in a way that substantiates their importance in everything that you have to share with us. We've got the gospel account, John moves us into the church age, it acts as a transition book, but Romans is the foundation for the Christian life and understanding of what great things you've done. And the fact that we've now concluded the first eight chapters, we realize that there is absolutely nothing that can separate us from your love. And with that as a foundation, we pray for the weeks to follow that your truth would be portrayed in ways now that are built on the foundation which we've established. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.