Dead to Sin Alive to God
Romans 6:5-7 · Bob Eckel · Aug 6, 2006
Romans (2005-07), No. 43
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/48262358284128

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

All right, Romans 6. Picking up where we left off. Well, maybe not quite, but we'll see. We'll see. And for those of you who weren't here last week, we had a bit of discussion that has been continued throughout the week. And I know many of us have been in prayer about this in terms of the way the Lord is going to work through this situation. And we're going to trust that we're going to be looking down at this whole thing and at this issue from the positional aspect of which these verses really are intended. So I think to get to 5-6, and Jim did a nice job going 1-4 and that sets the stage for 5-7. I'm sorry, 5-7, not 5-6. Let's go ahead and read those first seven verses here together and then we'll kind of begin with a more detailed study of verse 5.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer in it? Know ye not that as many of us who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death. That as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should also walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that this body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin."

You know, this is so critically important in terms of the text for the Christian life, but let's today try to focus in on the positional aspects of these truths. Let's begin by just reminding ourselves, and the first slide indicates, remember Romans 1 through 5 is our birth truths, and Romans 6 through 8 are our growth truths. Now the growth really doesn't truly begin till 8, because Romans 6 and 7 are very positionally based. Even Paul's struggles in 7 relate to the important position that was in six and that he wrote about and declared before seven. So this is really an important transition we want to make sure we take our time with. And as we are increasingly founded in our position, seated above, our condition increasingly reflects our position.

Is there any disagreement about this lead-in? Everybody okay? I'm purposely going to be keeping the floor open for comments and discussion today. All right. This is something that I've used. I wish I could say Bob Echol, Margaret reminded me, you probably didn't find this statement, but it's one I've used a lot. I can't find the person who may have said this. But those of you in the room who are parents, I think in terms of the way you try to raise children, Clark's heard this a thousand times from me, but it's not what you do.

It's who you are. And once you know And once you know who you are, what you do is an evidence of who you are. Everybody okay with that kind of as a principle of the Christian life? It's based on position. Who am I in the Lord Jesus Christ? And Jim taught that we're, and we're going to look at it again today, we're buried with Him with baptism unto death. We're co-crucified with Him, buried with Him in baptism unto death, and then risen with Him in newness of life. That's who we are. We've been co-crucified, co-buried, co-resurrected, co-seated in heavenly places with the Lord Jesus Christ. And increasingly, that positional truth that is lived out, I think, reflects itself in our condition and what we do. So let's use that as a working principle. Now, let's get at the verse today.

I've got two versions of just briefly the King James, but the New American Standard I chose just out of many choices here. For if we become united, the New American Standard Bible uses united, not planted. If we become united in parenthesis with him in the likeness of his death, and we're going to come back to this in a second about what this likeness is all about. Certainly, again, that's unique to the New American Standard Bible, but that's what it says, and I like it, but it's not in the original Greek. We shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

Okay? Let's look at this in a little bit more detail. I just put the King James here because I think planted together is really kind of a neat term. And by the way, this is the only time this is used in all of the New Testament. This united with or planted together. Only time that that is used in the New Testament. What does it mean to be planted or united together in the likeness of his death? Thoughts. Well, there's the comment. It's the only time this has been used. Newell has said, enlived together. I mean, that looks like a funny word, but I'm just taking it right out of Newell's commentary. Enlived together.

And the concept he brings across is a graft in a tree. And if we successfully create a graph into a tree, Jim, your tree, your roots, and you know, the life, and now we've got roots that are healthy, right? And we're grafted into those roots. So therefore, we have been at least positionally engrafted. And I think it's important to distinguish from that, that this is more than a close union. I mean, if we've been planted together or united, this is our intimate relationship. Now, I think it's important to realize that likeness doesn't mean that we were in fact there.

I mean, Roger, I don't know about you, I wasn't crucified 2,000 years ago. I didn't sense any pain. I didn't undergo the tumult of the tomb and all the things that related to the cross. It's a likeness or resemblance which amounts almost to equality and identity. That's key here. Planted together, grafted in, co-united, all this is really a likeness. It's not exactly us that were crucified. And so we have to be careful. We were not there physically, but we were figuratively and positionally.

Everybody okay with that concept then? I mean, I may be a little off here, I don't know Roman Catholicism all that well, but the idea of the, you know, the communion service is really the bread of Christ. I mean, isn't that part represented to some extent in the Catholic communion? I'm sorry, Bonnie? I think they teach that it becomes his body. Not a likeness, it really is his body, huh?

By faith in that truth, quote, unquote. All right? Now, why future tense? In the verse it says, if we have been planned and given the likeness of his resurrection, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. Why do you think we shall be also?

And I'm going to raise a couple of possibilities. Does this relate to the conditional nature of this statement? In other words, shall be, well, maybe under some circumstances, maybe not under other circumstances, or has it yet to happen? Is this relating to the rapture?

We shall be together, be in his resurrection? Or is it the life after death that's been so repeatedly promised to the believer? What are some thoughts here? This shall be his resurrection. Is this just some futuristic promise that God has granted us at the time of the rapture?

Or an eternity future? Remember, eternity has no limits. I mean, Burns so importantly pointed that out to me. Eternity is this sphere where we can't put a timeline on it. I mean, eternity is where we were placed to be in a time and where we're going to be forevermore. But there's no beginning and end to eternity. It's this concept wherein the promise to the believer is to be present with the Lord forevermore.

Is that what this is relating to? I think it's about appropriating faith is what it's about. So to some extent it is conditional. Because one issue that came up last week is this issue of passivity versus activity. And I would contend that we need to be sure we're talking about faith as an active process. This is not a passive process. It's not let go and let God. He'll show up. Faith is active. And so the faith in this idea of his life, his resurrected life being part of us, is really an active faith of believing we've been buried with him in baptism into death and risen with newness of life.

Let's look at Romans 5.10 just for a second. I think it gives us a concept of what this appropriation is all about. And again, today we're talking positional truth. The aspect of being transformed into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ is going to follow, particularly in Romans 8.

Romans 5.10, For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, and by the way, the death of his Son is exactly what we're talking about here, co-crucified, co-buried, co-died. Much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Alright? So, we consider ourselves having been crucified with Christ, died with Christ, buried with Him, and now the resurrection.

And we're saved by His life because, remember, salvation. I was saved. I'm being saved. I will be saved. Right? Salvation is then, now, and tomorrow. It's a constant process. So I think in 5.10 we're looking at the concept of this being saved by his life, kind of what we're buying into by faith just as much as our sins having been forgiven and being co-crucified with him. Everybody okay with where we're at right now? Any questions, any comments? Please feel free to raise up some ideas here. Alright, now, is there any doubt that we will be resurrection life?

Think about this concept of John 15 about the vine and the branches kind of concept. That is that life, the life. Thank you, the life, our life. That life, really the source of all our gasoline that we put in our engine is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit activating that life. But please understand, this is an active process of faith on our part. This just isn't let go, let God. This is an active process. So God has promised the resurrection life.

The question is, do we believe that he's going to live that out? And I think we all believe that. If we don't believe that, it's a constant struggle. It's a big, hard enough struggle without believing that. But when we really enter into that, we really experientially take part in what's promised to be a new life, a resurrection life.

Okay, Romans 6.6. Here's the Darby version. I'll read it up here. I can't read it there without taking my glasses off.

Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with, implied with him, that the body of sin might be annulled. Now, we're going to look at this verb a little bit more. This is an important, very, very important verb. That the body of sin might be annulled, but we should no longer serve sin. Wow, what a verse. What a verse!

Now, Romans 6.6 in the Interlinear, and the reason I'm pointing this out is because this is so important to the understanding.

There's an article, Tace, that precedes Sin. And that article implies more than, and this is not a sin, one sin, or even sins, this is kind of sin at its source, right? The body of sin is really sin from the point where the plug is placed in the wall and our building is wired. The sin nature, the source of sin is the amp box outside. That source is always there. And keep in mind, this, according to this verse, has been destroyed.

The sin, the body of sin, the really true element and kindling nature that we call sin. So, I'm not sure, maybe Vern, Jim, you guys, Roger can help me a little bit. When this article is before a word, it doesn't necessarily have to mean the or a. It could mean he or she and a lot of other things.

And I think the best interpretation here is the sin. But but why in the translations for and watch Jim, everybody? Larry, I mean, why in the translations is that not translate? I'm glad I'm not a translator. You know, the definite article is pointing to specificity.

And that's that's one thing that here we see sin and the problem in our English usage of it. We get several different things. to think, you know, this is the sin source. And that's why the body encompasses that translation, right? Yeah. And this is the sin source that you're talking about. Thanks.

Do you think the translators, sometimes you almost wonder if the translators didn't have a grasp of what actually Paul was talking about. That's an interesting point, Margaret. Leave it out when it's so important. And they really didn't understand what that meant. That it could have been any old sin. That was fine with them. Because they didn't understand the sin nature, the two natures.

I think there's a lot to it. And trust me, as I went to commentary after commentary on this section, this concept, it wasn't totally dismissed, but most of the commentators really don't have any kind of thought process or ownership of this truth. Schaefer does, he has a pretty good solid view, Darby, I mean the people we kind of recognize and look to in terms of commentation, but praise the Lord, he gives each one of us the spirit to look at the Word of God. Not that we have a corner on the truth, that we continue to not be overly persuaded by other people's opinions. Not that, again, nobody corners the truth, nobody has the perfect understanding, but the body of sin, I think, is missed by most of Christianity in this section. And that's a shame, because unless we understand before God that that body has been crucified, and before God is powerless, we're going to be missing an incredibly important aspect of the Christian life. Look at some of the other aspects of this first.

Knowing this, and Jim so nicely pointed out in a memo that he sent around to us, this is from the Greek term ginoska. And remember, know is oeivad, ginosko, and epiginosko. These terms for know mean a lot of different things. And Jim nicely pointed out, this typically means intimate knowledge. I mean, the kind of idea of knowledge that comes through experience.

I mean, I know Clark Donosco because he's my son. I've hung out with him for 22 years. I mean, the issue is I know him experientially and well. Bob, you know Nancy well. You've been with her for a while. You kind of have that sixth sense about what she's doing and what she's thinking about.

But Jim pointed out very importantly, this can simply be an understanding of the facts here too. And my question to the class today, is faith equally necessary for both interpretations? And I don't have an answer to this. I'm just asking the question as a point of discussion. And if it's a ridiculous question, tell me. Go on, Echols. Don't spend time there. You could know facts, but I don't know that you can have an understanding. Okay. All right.

So Carol has said that she feels that the experiential knowledge does require a bit more faith. Remember, the translation could be, we're talking about positional truth now. And knowing positional truth is facts. So we could go either way with this, and I think experientially you may have a little bit different kind of warm fuzzies about this, if experientially you had to come here through the back door.

And by the way, I did. I got saved July 14, 1978, and for four years tried to pay God back for my salvation in a legal system. And experientially, I finally came to believe that my old man had been crucified. And I've learned a little bit more in the last 24 years, but not much.

Devon, you were going to make a point. Well, I was going to say, in this particular context, it points to the fact. But the reality is, it's a truth worth growing. And the only way to grow in it is start with here's the fact and believe it. Then you can grow in it. You know, absolutely experiential knowledge comes by starting with God says it. And I believe in it, not as an intellectual thing, but as I depend upon it. And in that I can know that then comes the experiential aspect. Yeah, that's a great point. Other comments. Thanks for.

Well, if we believe we've been saved, our initial salvation. Most of us, we're pretty baby Christians. We're just learning on milk. The first John concept of children, young men, and old men. You don't have an intimate knowledge, but you just believe the basics.

That the Lord died for our sins. We were, we don't, you know, and I didn't know anything about crucified with him, dead, buried with him. I didn't know anything about identification. All I knew is. Your sins are forgiven and you'll live forevermore, right? Exactly, that's all you know. You don't know any of that other stuff.

It takes years and years to learn before you even understand that, have any understanding. So as Vern so appropriately said, so we know the facts and now we're going to grow experientially into them and take it on at a higher level, a more in-depth level and really ponder it and it's profound actually if you think about it. Yes? And Margaret's point is an awful lot of people get to a pretty far point along the road in their Christian life before they even know the facts. I mean, that's kind of a. Well, that's really true.

You know, it's like your your experience has been four years. And who am I to be the judge of this? But wouldn't, in the Christians you run across in other circles and things, don't you think the majority of people are under a legal payback God kind of concept and the way they walk? I mean, again, and who am I?

But nevertheless, I think that positional life in Christ that he gives us an opportunity to know and to live in is such a hierarchical one. That's the freedom we have. That's the rest and the activity of the faith that allows the freedom of a new nature to really be played out. It's just wonderful. The burden has been lifted. There's no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus. Wonderful! We've got to be excited about that. Don't we? I think that's just great stuff. Oh, man. Oh, by the way.

So we're not going to answer that question, is faith equally necessary for both? I think it is. I mean, we have to have faith to believe in the facts, but we also have to have faith to grow in the experience. And so I think that faith is probably equally as necessary for both. But I think the way I look at it is exactly what we've learned is we know the facts, now let's grow on them. And this is a constant process. It never ends. So the old man, we all know who that guy is. Old sinful self, old self also used, all we were in Adam. And in Romans 5, we've pretty much declared what Adam was all about, right?

So the beginning of the process, this is the beginning of the process that Jim so nicely outlined at the first lesson, this process of sanctification. The process of sanctification must begin by the first death, the death of the first man or Adam, right? So unless Adam's been crucified, this old man Adam ourselves has been crucified, there's going to be no sanctification.

I mean, I guess, again, this concept of being able to pay God back is something that I don't want to spend a lot of time here today because, you know, I'd rather not deal with the condition, I'd rather deal with the position of truth. Unless you view Adam as crucified, it's really a struggle at times to pay God back. And there's no way we really can without knowing that we have a new nature and that it's really activated to God's glory.

Now, in the body of sin, in the people's New Testament, I like this. Sin is conceived of as a living power with an organism reigning over us through our bodily members. I thought that was nice. In our death, the sin destroys this dominion. So it's the idea, in Adam, we really don't have any choice. I mean, the Adam nature, our self-serving efforts and desires ultimately are a dominion. It's a kingdom within us. It's a way of operation that ultimately can't be improved.

So the only way to deal with that is crucify it. And God so graciously said, I'm going to not only forgive your sins, I'm going to crucify the sin nature. And that's why there's no condemnation. You know, if we had our sins forgiven, but we still had this sin nature before God that we've got to try to stomp out, you know, in our own power, that changes the rules of the game. And I think makes it incredibly difficult, if not impossible. And my question to the class and to myself, do you believe this? that the old man and all that he's worth has been crucified.

Remember back in the late 70s and into the next presidential election there, we had these hostages in Iran and that was a real nasty time. And finally those guys came back by plane and the kingdom transfer was massive. They no longer had to live like they were stuck in Iran. And that was a huge relief, you know. And and that's the same thing here. He says, hey, you're not there anymore. You don't have to keep living like you're there. You know, not even sort of. It doesn't make any sense.

Yeah. And that was right before the Reagan election. Right. I mean, it was while Reagan was being inaugurated, the plane was still landing. Yeah. It was under the Carter administration. Yeah. Now back to the point that I alluded to a little earlier, to believe this is an ongoing activity on our behalf.

This is an active faith. Again, let me return to something I said earlier, is that the Christian who believes his or her sins are forgiven and they have eternal life is right on. They're absolutely correct. But the issue of believing that before God the atom nature has been crucified is something I would contend that most believers not only don't understand, their faith is not an active process in this regard.

This is not passive. This is an active faith of being led by the Holy Spirit, to constantly come before God believing that Adam is gone. And this isn't a mystical experience. This is not something that's irresponsibility. This is active faith. Believing that what God has revealed, that he's crucified Adam, and our old man, is perfectly true.

Anald. Let's look at the various ways this verb is translated. Darby is the only one that used Anald, but I like Anald. It's a term that I, that's just me, but that's a term I particularly like. If we turn to the New King James Version, the New International Version, the New American Standard, the Webster, the Hebrew, Hebrew Names Version, I think is what it is. They all use done away with.

The King James and the revised standard use destroyed. Young uses made useless. By the way, that's a Bible I only have on the blue letter version of a website, but I've never read the Young version. Has anybody read the Young version of the Bible? But anyway, it's on there, so I thought I'd put this verb up there. Made useless. And the ILG's made ineffective.

Which one of these do you particularly like? Which one do you think best explains your view of what this crucified old man looks like before God? Okay. Severed? Okay. So what's that concept played out? I mean, how do you interpret this in terms of the way God views this? And then how do you interpret in terms of how it influences your life? So before God, how does God view this verb, a null, done away with, rendered inoperative, all these other translations? Because we are identified with Christ and I love this example. So here we are and here is Christ and the Lord is looking at us but he sees Christ. So because he sees Christ who is the perfect man, righteous, he sees us that way. Do you believe that? Yeah, I do. You do. Day in and day out. So why do you sometimes fall short? Margaret told me she does. This isn't my... Margaret sometimes tells me that she does. Of course, I mean... Conditionally, that the Lord sees me identified with Christ, but conditionally, you know, Adam is very active in me.

I mean, the conclusion of these verbs, no matter how you translate them, and in the text, we should no longer serve sin. Now, we're going to look at that in more detail, but from God's perspective, this nature has been done away with. Isn't that great? Because no matter how heinous our life can become, and how crime-filled and sin-filled, once saved before God, we're saved. And that doesn't seem right to me, but those are God's rules. Whoever said God was fair, right? By the world standard. God is just. Fairness, well, some people can disagree.

That's another topic. Let's go there in a bit. But the issue is, God sees this as a done deal. And isn't it neat, because not only is it sins that you're going to do 10 minutes from now, of course, none of you are going to do that. But remember, sins come in as omissions, commissions, and just other things that we could consider the source from Adam. God has crucified that.

He's annulled it. He's destroyed it. He's rendered it inoperative. Yeah. It's real important here to pick up on the destroyed aspect and think, Well, it's gone. It's out of here. And that leads you down a path. Thanks, Roger. Just, you know, off the left field. I mean, you're out there, you know, and it's no longer there. And you have to explain, well, then, why do I sin? And you have a whole bunch of other issues.

Yeah, it's those demons that are entering my body and doing all this. I think the important truth here is that God is not counting us accountable to this nature anymore. I said I wasn't going to talk much about condition today, but remember I said up front, as our positional truths get more solidified, and our faith becomes increasingly active in this process of the fact that we've been co-crucified with Christ, our condition is going to increasingly reflect more our position. And I think that's active faith in this particular truth. And, Vernon, as you so often say, this is kind of a logical conclusion. Is it not, as we become more firmly ingrained in our position, that that body of life that we call the Lord Jesus Christ, the new man, is going to increasingly become apparent? But this isn't passive. This is active. And the verse says, because this is true, because You know, we were all crucified. The old man's been crucified.

The conclusion is we should no longer serve sin. A logical conclusion to this important text about what happened to Adam and who we are in Christ. Serve means to be a slave or a bondservant, and Rogers had nicely pointed out, this doesn't mean we don't sin.

We still have an Adam nature, a sin nature, but before God, that nature's been crucified. Now I don't know about you, but as you grow in grace, ultimately the desire to do certain things is increasingly taken away. And it's not really the new life that even would choose that. So anyway, the new nature ultimately has the life, our life, to live in its own right.

And not serving sin is the logical conclusion, I think, to be believing that the atom nature has been crucified before God has no power. Serve is to be a slave to. Notice what serve isn't. It's not can't or don't. None of us are saying, I can't sin. And none of us are saying, we don't sin. It just says serving sin is not what we expect out of a man or woman who's walking by grace and faith in the new life. Everybody okay with where we're at here today?

Now, remember, this is positional truth applied. We don't want to spend too much time on condition today, but when positional truth gets applied, The life is one that is apparently increasingly to you and to others not serving sin. So what's the application look like? And I'm just simply today going to say Romans 6 and 7 to a large extent are positional truths.

Remember Romans 7 has a lot of condition in it because Paul falls back under legal ways. and is so frustrated with his inability to really perform in the old ways of the Jewish tradition and obeying the law. But that's experiential, but yet that sets the framework for the positional aspects of translating that into, oh, wretched man that I am, and then there's no condemnation kind of scenario.

So that's the new life. Let's wait on this in terms of looking how the Holy Spirit enables the new man to live the Christian life. Thoughts? Okay. Okay, verse 7. To some extent, I think you can see with me, these verses are very repetitive. In fact, many things that Jim taught in Romans 6, 1 through 4, now we're just kind of going over them again. And I think that reflects the importance of the principles of these verses to the walk that God has called us to. So let's look at verse 7.

For he who has died has been freed from sin. Boy, how about that for a liberating verse? The ILG, the one for having died, has been justified from, again, article before sin, the sin nature. Same truth said in different ways. What does it mean to have died and to be freed or justified from sin?

Let's look at the verb tense, and we don't want to get overly preoccupied here, but having died is aorist active. Why do you think that Paul, through the power of the Spirit, wrote this as an aorist active verb? indicating that it's something that happened in the past. It's not something that we as believers need to hope might happen today at 3 o'clock or next week, but it's in the past. So Jim, what are your thoughts then about the active aspect of this rather than the passive? I mean, this is not, I view active as something we're participating in, right? Could that relate to our faith? Because without faith, We could not have died. Margaret, you read the notes. I didn't read the notes. I could have, but I didn't. That's good.

So the question I was going to ask, I think it's active, and I could be corrected on this, I think it's active because we have to enter into this truth by active faith. The one for having died, yeah, it's been done, right? But the one having died is me having died. Am I actively believing by my faith that I've been crucified? And if I'm not actively engaged in that truth, this becomes just a fact on the wall that I haven't aspired to, that I don't understand, that I don't really incorporate. I think this idea of having died and being freed from sin is an active process on our part. Understanding the facts, Jim, but as Ron said, we're incorporating the gnosis aspect into this experientially.

OK, good. Now, been rendered just, set apart, sanctified, set free. This is perfect passive. How about that, huh? Isn't this verse a goldmine? This verse is an incredibly important, you know, set of jewels and gems. Because the verb context here make it so relevant in terms of how it affects our belief and how it affects our lives.

We actively participate in the truth that we have died. And now, by the way, we've been set apart by Him. Passive. We are the recipient of God's great act of grace. Perfect passive means that we have not only been the recipient of it, this continues on and on and on and on. This is the Lord done to us and actively ongoing in our lives. But interesting, the second part of this verse follows the first part.

We have to actively enter into the belief that we've died unto sin. And oh, by the way, when we do that, the condition is God has already taken care of this, and this sustaining truth is going to be with us forevermore, and we're the recipients of that grace.

Thoughts? It's like a chocolate fudge sundaes. I don't like chocolate, but many of you do. Perfect tense there implies permanence, which is a huge thing to depend upon. You know that I don't have to go out and try to do it all over again. Isn't that great? That's a wonderful thing.

You don't need an altar call every Sunday. I've been re-re-re-re-dedicated ten times now, you know? How many gallons of tears does it take? Don't you love that? No. He says no. And the other concept I think to bring across here is a concept that I'm going to kind of read in between lines of the verse.

That when we believe this, there's a rest. Remember, it's an act of faith. This isn't a passive rest. It's an act of faith that allows us to rest. And think of the freedom we have then. The freedom to live by the power of the Spirit that engages the new life, to be all that it is. So, so important.

Who's died and been freed? Well, the Lord said it's that old guy Adam. It's the sin source, the nature that's been crucified. And since we inherited the first Adam, each one of us have been part of this process positionally and figuratively. And what happens subsequently? We have new citizenship. And that new citizenship is declared because we've been risen with him in new resurrected life. And God has declared it. Do we believe it?

I'll bet you when things get frustrating enough down here for me, and boy, all of us live complex lives, there's all kinds of trials and tribulations and frustrations, I get a real rest. The Spirit gives me a real rest just reminding me I'm not a citizen of this earth anyway. I'm just kind of a visitor here for a while. And citizenship has a way of really reminding us that we're positioned above. and we've been resurrected with them, and we're positioned and seated at the right hand, and we're citizens of a different nation.

And you know, this stuff in the Middle East is going on. We're all concerned about that. We have friends and loved ones who are there. People are dying. And it just is incredibly distressing. And I say this very distantly. I'm in the bleachers for sure here. I don't, you know, have, you know, I'm not there. I'm not going through things. And Clark's got a buddy at work who has his family up in the hills of Beirut to avoid the So I mean he's hearing that from a guy at work day in day out. He's on the website all the time saying his brother and his parents are still safe. But yet, you know, this earth is going to take its course, isn't it? And that doesn't mean we're not concerned, we don't pray for it, but we're from a different nation. We're from heavenly places. And because we've been crucified with Adam and risen with Christ. That gives us every comfort that we don't get too preoccupied with here. Let your life by faith allow God's glory to be perceived and revealed. That He gets the credit.

And that doesn't mean we ignore, I'm not saying we don't vote, I'm not saying we're not concerned, we don't pray, but this is the earth. Our citizenship, by grace, is positioned elsewhere. And the big question that we've been dealing with all morning, do we believe it? Even if we don't, the truth of this important fact remains. Yes, Carol? I'm so glad you added that because I feel so blessed to know that. and have the freedom that comes in my life because I know and accept and grateful for knowing identification. But there are so many in other denominations who don't know this. They don't have that freedom, but they're still our brothers and sisters in Christ. They are. And eternity.

And I feel sorry about that, but not critical of it. I think sometimes there's, I don't know, is there thinking that we're a little beyond or something because we know identification? Yeah, I think you've raised a great point and Holly Hill's over the years and I've only been attending here since 1994 so I don't have a long history but over the years that criticism has come up. We're so tied into this identification and so unwilling to kind of allow other viewpoints and things to come in.

The Holy Spirit has to lead there. We need to be warm and hospitable here. We need to listen to people who have different views and try to accommodate and work through the truth of the Word of God to allow God's grace to grow in all of our lives through these experiences. I agree with that point. We don't have the corner on the truth. But the reason we gather here together is we do have like minds and hearts about how to interpret the Word of God for the life that we live here on this earth. Why don't I go to an Episcopal church? Why don't I go to an evangelical free church? I did for a while. And ultimately the fellowship around the person of the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't happening there.

That's not saying there weren't beautiful believers who were living lives that were glorifying to God. It's just that we gather here together because we aspire to know the new man and how that new man operates through each and every one of us. But I think your point is a very important one. We have to be more hospitable to people who come in that have a different background, different view, because when many of us came here for the first time, we weren't solidified in these truths. We don't, again, have that corner on God's perfect truth. It's amazing, though, that when I heard it the first time, oh my gosh, it was like full of water for the soul, you know. Let me share with you personally in 1982, I'll take just a moment here because I don't want to bore you with this.

I had just come here as a new faculty member at the Health Sciences Center and I had a couple of fellows working with me. Now fellows are not necessarily men, they could be women, but in medicine you go through medical school, then you do your house staff training in pediatrics, medicine obstetrics or whatever else you do. And then if you want to go on to do more training in a subspecialty, you become a fellow. And a fellow is already an internist, already a pediatrician, already a surgeon, who then goes on for additional training. So this fellow was a really orthodox Jew. I mean, so here's a guy who kind of takes his Jewish religion very, very seriously. And we've had a lot of conversations. And Craig remains still committed to his Jewish faith. So anyway, we really had this very interesting research finding in human subjects, one of the clinical studies we're doing that really had, I think, implications that are very important, relevant to the field.

And so we were submitting this work to one of the highest quality journals. And I was expressing to Sharon, my late wife, about that I thought this is my first big paper as a new faculty member here. And my boss was kind of upset that we hadn't been making more progress more quickly. But Craig wanted to be the first author, although these were experiments that I designed, these were grants that I'd done, so I felt kind of like I needed to tell Craig I wanted the first author of this paper, he should be, so it should be Echol and Sidur, not Sidur and Echol, and you know, that's a pride thing, it stunk to high heaven, and I was saying to Sharon how disappointed God was with me and the way I felt.

And she just began to start getting into this, and said, Bob, What's the matter with you? She was just starting to catch on with this idea of having the old man crucified and God's not disappointed with you. He expects this out of your flesh. In other words, this whole lack of freedom in living the Christian life. Remember, I was operating on a paid God back thing. Here he's disappointed with me.

And you know, Newell says in 6, we're not quite this far yet, but Newell says to be disappointed in yourself is to have trusted yourself, right? I mean, the concept that out of the Adam nature, what do you expect? So anyway, that began to open doors for me, and when Sharon talked to me about this, and we had a great conversation at the dinner table that night, suddenly I started to see a little bit of a light about this truth in Romans 6. about the fact that God doesn't see that old guy. Why are we still serving him?

And not that we don't all fall back into those things periodically. I mean, sometimes it seems too frequently based on what we know and what we believe. But it happens. I'm sure many people have said this. When God takes us home, when we finally leave these earthly bodies and are with him eternally there rather than here, We're not going to have this down pat by then, are we? This new life, this believing this truth to its infinite application is something we're not going to have totally down when we leave here. Remember, this is positional truth. We're asked to believe it as much as we believe that our sins have been forgiven and that we have eternal life.

A couple of things for months from now. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. important reminder for each and every one of us. 812, therefore brethren, we're debtors not to the flesh to live according to the flesh. We're debtors to live in this new man, this resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and all that he is. That's all I have for today. I can't say I prayed for that. So we have a few minutes to wrap up. Other people want to share some thoughts?

I was thinking it does seem like Michael was talking about, you know, that you have to go through this. The Lord seems to take us through the steps of salvation through this before we get to position. I always tease my husband if he has an opportunity to witness. He tells him about identification and I see eyes glaze over.

How long did it take? You know, it took me years and years and years, my whole life before I ever heard this. But it was just like you, Carol. As soon as I heard that, I didn't even, I'd never heard it. I didn't understand any of it. But it was like, wow.

Just to kind of set the stage now, Jim is going to be teaching, I think, 8 through 10 next week, right, Jim? And then 11 through 13, we need to kind of discuss. And August the 20th, you're not here, or you are here? I'm here. Because I am not. So you get first 11.

But then we need to rework the schedule. Josiah, I think at this point, is not going to be with us. So we'll work out the schedule. But as of now, Jim and I will maybe some help from Mike and Vern on this item. But anyway, we'll be carrying the class until Hal's Let's keep Howell in our prayers, too.

Howell's down with his son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren in Florida playing some golf, we hope, and they're relaxing, and then he comes back for the biggie. And let me just tell you, having gone through a bone marrow transplant with Sharon, they do it better these days than they did 12 years ago, 13 years ago, but it's still a task. How long of a process is that? Give him three months.

Because what happens with a bone marrow transplant, get the idea here that the bone marrow transplant doesn't save Howell from his illness. It's the high dose industrial strength chemotherapy that does. But they give such high doses of chemotherapy that his bone marrow is wiped out. So he would die of having no bone marrow, no red cells, no white cells, no platelets. So the doses are extremely high. So they must harvest his own stem cells before he gets treated with the industrial strength.

And then they give him back his stem cells at an appropriate interval where those cells will home in and start to work again. the highest chemotherapy doses had today? Correct, correct. And so this is kind of like the peak shock. Yeah, this is industrial strength chemotherapy, right?

But don't they clean his cells somehow? Oh yeah, they'll take his marrow and make sure he's disease free. And if they're not, they'll take care of that. But the idea of the chemotherapy is that they're gonna kill every possible cell that could be in the bone marrow. Keep in mind, leukemia arises from the bone marrow. My wife's tumor was breast, which does not arrive from bone marrow. And one of the fallacies, I'll just teach a little medicine here, one of the fallacies of bone marrow transplantation is this. In breast cancer, colon cancer, lung cancer, other organ cancers, many of the cancer cells are resting. They're not resting in faith. They're resting in... That's for sure. These are Satan's guys out there.

So when cells rest and they're not dividing, chemotherapy doesn't do anything to them. So you can give high dose industrial strength chemotherapy, but if there are cells that are in what we call G0 and not dividing, as soon as the chemotherapy is done, those cells start waking up. And so for breast cancer like Sharon had, all those G0 cells woke up after the bone marrow transplantation and took her home. So with Hal, the idea of bone marrow as the source of the leukemia is good. because you're killing the bone marrow, and the bone marrow is an actively dividing organ. You're making red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets all the time. And so because you're dealing with an actively turning over bone marrow, the opportunity here is really good. And that's why the doctor wants to go ahead. Yeah. No, that's.

And that period is a very susceptible period for infection and bleeding and all the things that go along with having no circulating cells. So when they give him his own stem cells back, those cells have to implant and begin to function. And that takes weeks. How long will he be hospitalized?

The standard has been three weeks, but I don't want to say that with any degree of certainty. It may be different. What was your understanding, Vern? My understanding was he was going to spend a week going through this, maybe longer after that, because we had to watch him so closely.

Well, Lindy told me that they're going to keep him hospitalized the whole time. They initially had thought about getting an apartment. She's not going to do that. They're going to keep him in the hospital the entire time. She is going to drive back and forth, which she would rather do. And they're not going to take him to an apartment so that he can go back and forth for his treatments. He's going to stay in the hospital isolated.

That's more typical. Let's close in prayer. Father, we're grateful for the fellowship around the world this morning, and we trust you're in the position of constantly teaching us and revealing your truth. And I pray that the Spirit leads and we respond to this beautiful positional truth about being crucified, buried, risen, and positioned in a new life. We believe that actively and make it a part of our each and every day existence. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.