How To Study The Bible

just assigned this task to me to stand in front of you and proclaim this strange news. And the news is the gifts of this bird and the gifts of healing and so on and what it did in the history of the church. You may know that when the disciples were sent out to They came back and said, Lord, we are apparently not able to drive out these demons. Now what's the matter? And what did Jesus tell them? You know? Those can only be driven out through fasting and prayer. What a strange thing. Fasting is maybe desirable for some people at some time, but it's tough. And prayer is also not something which comes easy for some at some times. But those two things the Lord set out.

Then in Mark, at the end of Mark, He told very clearly and boldly what the gift would be. If you look at the end of Mark, chapter 16 if we start with verse 14 afterwards he appeared unto the eleven are you there yet? I'm sorry I shouldn't start reading yet this is Mark 16 verse 14 after he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, this is the King James Version, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And then he said unto them, Go ye unto all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. But he that believeth not shall be damned, and these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak in new tongues, they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word with signs fulling.

Amen." Now, apparently, when we look at John's handout here, it starts out with a page, The History of Charismatic Extremism. And already in 170, there was a man by the name of Montanus who declared himself a prophet. had two women. I don't know whether they were his wife, but it doesn't say this specifically, and I have no inkling of what it was, but those two women, they went with him as prophetesses. They declared Joel's prophecy to be fulfilled in his ministry, taught the soon return of Christ, and he was the prophet to usher in his return. The church declared him as a heretic and excommunicated him thereafter.

Now, what comes to my mind is that the gifts which we just read, they seem to have dwindled away, and they seem to have not been as effective, and when people laid hands on them, they had maybe some missed bad results, and nothing happened afterwards. And this was very discouraging for some, and therefore I guess very early the church just simply didn't practice those deeds anymore by laying their hands on the sick. Because it's very embarrassing if you lay the hands on somebody in good faith and nothing happens. I recall at those Joni Erickson's book, One Step Further, where she said how faithfully and how diligently people laid hand on her and she was in a full belief that she would be healed and she never was. And therefore, this is probably the reason why the church went away from practicing some of these things and not even believing in them anymore.

And then there come these sudden rebirths, so to speak, like Montanus. I don't know whether I pronounced that correctly the way you would, but I would say Montanus. And the real question is, do those people do whatever they, like reinventing the the abilities which Christ proclaimed should be, essentially, the gift of everyone, but by them reinventing those, is this something out of a desire of being greater than Christ, or being greater than anybody else, or is it a true desire to find the Lord and to serve the Lord? That's our kind of struck me when I read through all of this, that people always, through the history, always strive to have a closer relation with God, and also to bring back what Christ so boldly promised. How do you feel about this? Has anybody an idea? Right. Oh, absolutely.

I was especially surprised when I read the little essay here about John Wesley. Anything I knew about John Wesley was anything but what it so shortly and simply says here. Let me read it. John Wesley endorsed Montanus, first of all, in his practices and in his journal. In this Armenian magazine were full reports of bizarre spiritual phenomena of all kinds, demonic possessions, people who communicated with the dead, the ecstatic jumpers of whales, and female sleeping preachers. Wesley, like Montanus, gave women leadership positions in this church which had always been held by men. Now when I, anything I read ever about Wesley where only at least by my standards of humble discernment, I guess I would call it. And I never was a major student of the word, not because of not desire, but because you have so much time and you get to do the things you need to do. But I wouldn't proclaim myself as a student of the word like Werners, for instance.

But when I read anything about Wesley, in fact it was just a write-up in the last book on the family citizen where Wesley was written up in his helplessness and how he got abused by the British and through his a firm stand behind Christ that there was a man with the name of Booth who I mean I'm not the one who knows all this and I simply read it all and I don't know whether you have similar information but Booth was the one who was the founder of the Salvation Army and then those people were tremendously persecuted I mean they just threw rotten eggs and mud and stones at them and then some got terribly hurt to some of those people. And Booth, as I just said, he was a sort of a one who was awakened by John Wesley. And there are so many songs also from John Wesley. Therefore, please don't think I want to defend John Wesley. I don't know enough about him.

But when you read this here, I somehow get a little disturbed about the desire of some people who who really truly want to serve the Lord and they want to have the gifts which Christ does proclaim would be following us. And like I said of Joni, I mean, when my first wife got sick with cancer, I mean, there were people who I knew.

I was not a Pentecostal, but I knew some people and they asked me whether they could come and pray. And I mean, you're so desperate I mean, you'll do almost anything, okay? Maybe this is not good to share, but I share it with you anyhow. I just happened one morning to read out of the Old Testament that there was a king and he was very sick and they made a pie of figs and put it on his stomach. And that's what I did to my wife. Because I read this this morning and I thought, well, this is a hint of God for me to to do that and then she had colon cancer and I put a big pie of hot figs on their stomach.

Go into all the world and tell them who did that. You know, you trust first of all in God. You're definitely not doing it on your own to be bold. Therefore, I wonder if some of those people who But Chuck said it very nicely. He proclaimed himself to be a prophet. It's not that others said it.

Maybe there are definitely ways to decipher or to use the doctor's knife and find the wrongs with some of those people. But generally speaking, I was quite surprised about, especially John Wesley, who I had thought was a real follower of Christ in many ways. And when you read this, you almost say, wow, what went wrong here? Why did he fall away from normal discipleship and following the Lord? Why did he take things into his own hand and change same things? Yeah. Or would you say this John Wesley is not the one which we seem to know? It looks like it's the same person. I mean, I didn't study. It must be the same, right?

They came over to America, too, on a boat, and are the originators of many, many dear songs we have in our songbook, too. But that's quite amazing, isn't it? That he essentially supported Mountainous, or at least involved him in his... And then Mother Lee, this is another one. Yeah?

I have a question here. And I don't know the timeframe. My sister said in the early days of John McLeod was becoming one of these. This doesn't say it, and I have very little information on that. And I don't know where, I'm sure Vern got it out of a book where this is being said. Well, this is a division in the Methodist Church as far as it's concerned in what way the Methodists are also fundamental. When the regular Methodist Church is considered to be a liberal, God minded church, I just wonder if in any way I'm really sad that I'm not a scholar to give you the details like Verne probably would. I mean he would stand there and tell you exactly the details. I'm sorry that I do fail in knowing the details on this. Therefore I was really stunned by I didn't get a chance to talk to Vern afterwards. I brought him to the airport, and I asked him a few questions, but not this one.

Then the mother, Ann Lee, she joined the Shaking Quakers. They were at home mainly in the Albany area, and I was once on a, somebody led me to a churchyard, and that churchyard was just covered with lady crosses and the lady bodies, I guess, all from the shaking Quakers. They didn't marry and they didn't have any children, therefore that was one wave of Quakers which passed away like one of the Catholic nun cloisters, you know, they served the Lord in whatever way but they don't produce any offsprings, therefore they will vanish as they go on, simply as this shaking quake is.

Now, why do we go into these things when we want to talk about our real topic is that the Bible, how to read the Bible properly, and how to interpret it so that we don't go astray. And then here are examples, essentially, where people had the same book, the Bible, and deviated from it.

And then, as I see it, mainly because of boldness, first of all, to regain a closer relation to God. Would you say so, or not? I think that's the issue. In a sense, that's why we're all here. searching out a path. It all derives from our individual experiences.

When I was a kid, I grew up right out of the Baptist. I had no idea of the difference between the Baptist and Methodist. I knew I was part of them. It was my family's experience that I settled into. And then as I got older, I mean, we looked around for a lot of the major denominations until we find ourselves here. And obviously, I can't speak for the rebels, but they're still searching. And we're still looking for the way. Or make that, you know, myself. And I think in effect, that's what we're all doing. looking for the way and hopefully we find it here in this teaching. Yes.

But I think experience, I mean if you look at Wesley, I mean he obviously had a group that followed him. But if you knew those people, I mean that's kind of how that plot began. I mean there were parents that were attracted to him, who brought along family, and the group grows.

I mean you think about the the people that the Mennonites and those groups that are still around like in Pennsylvania. I mean, you know, we would call them or we think of them as, you know, out of a different path that we're seeking. I mean, if you take a look at what little I know of their practices, I mean, it seems like you could argue that they do a lot of things well. I mean, they certainly try to separate themselves from the world as we understand it.

So, I mean, you can kind of take good things from all these examples and see why people might be attracted enough to stay there. Absolutely. But I think if we learn anything out of these examples, then the Extremism. Extremism? Is that the way you would say it? Extremism would, at least for me, would come very clearly about if somebody obviously wants to add something.

Like the Mormon Church. That they have another experience. Or the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope has a vision or a dream or whatever it may be and this supersedes what we know in the Bible. And therefore if we may go now from those examples which Verne showed forward which goes to Cambridge revival and then Edward Irving and Alexander Daly and so on. These are all through the history examples of people who, to a large extent, came up with adding something to the Scripture, and in some cases they still accept the Scripture as the Word of God, maybe, but they're a new thing.

It's really what superseded this, and therefore we are more elevated than those before. We have something else. And that is even better than what we had before. And then I think that this is where the tie hits the road. That's where one has to truly draw a line. And the Catholicism is definitely one religion, which is extremely powerful as we all know, which kind of came up with lots of their own.

There is a big section here on neo-montanism which is really a rebirth again of this guy Montanus, 170 AD. But let's look at the pages of Here we have a sheet which says the eminence of the Roman Catholic Church. What's the page number? There's no page number on it. This is the way it looks. Yours must be kind of greyish. Yeah? Greyish and then has a frame around. And it gives you the history of the emergence of the Roman Catholic Church what all occurred.

Even when I came to America in 1962 and a friend of mine, he was Italian, he went every morning before work, he went to church. And since he took me in under his wing, since I could hardly spell my name in English, therefore he was extremely kind and he always took me to And since I was staying with him, I always went with him to the service in the morning. And very faithful and up to this day.

And in America, in Chester, Pennsylvania, they spoke Latin. Believe it or not. This was in 1962. And that was amazing to me, because I had learned Latin for seven years in high school. And not that I was fluent, but I was absolutely startled this poor American congregation had to listen to all of this in Latin. Anyhow, therefore the first issue is Latin used in prayer and worship imposed by Pope Gregory in 600. From 600 on, Latin was just the normal church language and therefore many of the composers who came up with like Bach and before him the music, but most of the spiritual songs are in Latin, before Bach especially. And our prayers directed to Mary, dead saints and angels. Now that seems to be adding something which we don't find in the scripture at all, right? And is that right or wrong? I would say that sure, it's wrong. This is ridiculous.

Then kissing Pope's feet began with Pope Constantine Now the Catholics don't only kiss the Pope's feet, they kiss Peter's feet and that's a huge statue in Rome and the toe is about as big as my fist and there's no toe left from all the lips, they kissed away St. Peter's feet. Isn't that amazing? The soft touch of the lips kissed away Peter's feet, the toe at least. Veneration of the cross images and relics authorized.

That came in 1786. And the point I made previously is that here we see a situation where the Bible is not satisfactory. It is something, it's almost like a man divorcing his wife and finding another woman. By the wayside, and we we suddenly think something newer is better. And that's what it reminds me of. It goes on and on.

College of Cardinals established, then canonization of dead people as saints. That's 995. Attendance at Mass made mandatory. You see, this friend of mine, Dominic Fantosi, good Italian, And not that he was such a humble individual. He was a bold, outspoken man. I mean, he would have punched you in the nose if you said something against him. But boy, he went to this church and went on his knees, I mean, every morning.

Amazing, isn't it? The obedience of those people has been drummed into them. And I mean, why do we come to church? Because we are forced to come here or because we do it out of our free will? And joyfully too. I'm not doing it because someone has a club behind me and wants me to...

And as I said, every morning, and I live on Logan next to the Immaculate Conception Church, you know, that big Roman cathedral. And you would be amazed if you lived there, you would see what's going on. And early in the morning, I don't know how many services they have, but it starts at about 6 o'clock in the morning and 7 o'clock and people go in there and light their candle and go on their knees and pray to God and go back home. Or to work, whatever. It's amazing. Oh, they go back to her. Yes, right.

Therefore, the key issues here in this whole discussion are that we have to be careful that we don't participate in adding, in coming up with something through dreams or through whatever means. And that we proclaim something which a normal thinking person And let me say this again, and that's of course very subjective in a way, but do you know what I mean by a normal thinking person? A normal thinking person says, boy, wow, wait a minute, where does this come from? And if it's in the John Smith, or John Smith, the Norman founder, or whether this is now Montanus, or whoever it may be, that we say, well, we don't want to be a part of that. Yeah, go ahead.

Well, the people who instituted these practices down through the ages were obviously not born-again believers, so would you be surprised at what they were coming up with? Energized by Satan, undoubtedly, that's the way I look at it. You know, all of these practices of the Roman Catholic Church, They weren't born-again believers. If they were, they would have known and understood the scriptures, which you don't add to them. Do you think we can generalize and say that there are no born-again believers in the Catholic Church? No, no, I'm not saying that.

But the ones who instituted these practices... Yes. Yeah. Of course there have been believers. But I find it hard to believe that, you know, any of the sale of indulgences and that sort of thing could eternally be distributed by people who were believers. Is that a wrong way to look at it? No, I think, I definitely agree with you. And, yeah, I have a pamphlet attracted to oxymoron Roman Catholic Christians. It was an oxymoron, a contradiction. Roman Catholic Christians. Well, the reason for that is because they're Catholic first. And then when they become believers, most of them trickle out of the church because they realize they don't belong there, they don't fit anymore.

Oh, you're so right. Did you hear what she said? You want to be there to be a testimony to the others, but most of them for the sake of their own learning and their own peace with God would rather be a different place learning about God's truth. Yes. I fully agree with you.

What made me very adamant about the Catholic Church was that they said, well, the Bible is only for the learned, the people who studied it officially. But the peasant folk, and I consider myself maybe more peasant, that it's not for them to even look into. And if something, you see, I often get involved in as what they call so beautifully, an expert witness. I don't know what kind of an expert I am, but I become truly an expert in a certain field.

And I have to go to court. And the first thing I ask the lawyer who wants to hire me is whether he's willing to give me anything that is printed on this case. And I know that they siphon out or they take only certain things that they want you to know. And that I cannot stand because that just hinders me and I cannot get a real feel.

And I was involved in one particular major litigation which lasted from 84 to 96. No, no, 98 even. 14 years. And this was a $800,000 hot gas expander, which failed several times while it was new. And I had to testify in court for months in Tampa, Florida.

I had to testify if I was kind of right and wrong. And the reason I mention this, there was a very good friend of mine, who is a renowned, much more renowned in America than I am, as an expert in turbine machinery. And I met him a year before the final court date came about and I told him that he should look better at the whole evidence. I know everything. That was his reply. And I tell you, we I plowed him to the ground. He felt so hard, you thought he broke his skull in the courtroom. I went bad. He was so humbled. He hardly says hello to me today. And then I warned him a year before.

Therefore, whenever somebody tells you that you cannot look at this or you cannot look at that, I mean, who are they? And for the Catholic Church to be so bold and so arrogant in a way, And of course there are some reasons, I guess, why. Because, you know, this is why Verne goes with such a delicate touch with a doctor's knife into every detail and takes the time, 60 hours a week, and looks at where this originated and what word is known today, whether it's the Greek word or whether that's the Hebrew word, and what the meaning has been based on all these cross-checks, which is an enormous amount of work which is put in, but what does he add to it?

Is there anything he adds to it? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Of course he adds his time and his willingness to humble himself, and that is so incredible. And then not all of us have the time to do that. That's why we have a leader who we support himself. And that is, in my opinion, the only way to go. And that's the only way I would be happy.

But I still thought John Bessley was a great guy. I think this point on Satan was well-taken. It took me back to the serpent and Eve in the garden. The book says how subtle Satan is. And again, you can kind of extrapolate that to these people in the beginning. The subtlety of Satan that probably led them thinking that that was what God wanted them to do, and certainly that's what happened with Eve. And then the other example from shortly after that in the book is when Satan actually takes Jesus into the desert for 40 days. Exactly. Jesus didn't do any thinking on his own, and everything that he responded to the devil, to Satan with, was from the book, it was from God.

Isn't that so wonderful? Chuck, this is beautiful. I'm glad you thought of that. How amazing, our Lord, being tempted by the devil. I mean, he could have come up with all sorts of things. And he had some fantastic answers. Like when they approached him and said, to whom shall we pay taxes? And he said, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Give me a coin, show it to me. Well, what an answer.

Would I have thought of that? I don't think so. And there he had some cases, but with the devil you can't fuss around. I mean, you have to come up with substantial answers, and they are there in the Word. I love that he thought of that. Because here, our Lord Himself only drew on the Word. And that should be for us. the same thing, you should not act like John Smith.

I mean, there's so many things known about John Smith and then there was some people killed just some years ago in Salt Lake City in a very awkward story. There was some murder right in the high ranks of the Mormon Church. And you wonder then, in some way. Also, what is very selling to me is when somebody become so big, and then mentioning names is always a little tricky, but for instance, like Chuck Swindoll, or the, what is the Glass Palace there in Shula, and also Jimmy Swigert, and I mean we have so many, and Baker, and I mean what a sad reflection to them, deep behind.

And the world as such looks at all those people and says, look, these are Christians. And they just smear dirt into Christ's face. And that's so sad for me when I look at that. Yeah, let's just look at the next sheet here. Teaching of the Roman Catholic Church versus the Word of God. So this is that page.

It's all sort of in... I wrote the gift, the God's gift underneath there. The tradition is equal and added to the scripture the teaching of the Catholic Church that the Pope can add to what has been previously revealed and then of course the Word of God on the right is very clear and he answered and said to them and and why do you yourself transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition and then also ensued 3. Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly with the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Once for all. And then the next item here, interpreting the word of God can only be done by the Pope and Bishops, this is what I mentioned before.

And then here in Acts it says, Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so. You see, examining the Scriptures daily. And the benefits which we draw out of this are are immeasurable. Therefore, it's sad when people take things in their own hand and just add to it. This is not possible, not acceptable, and I would never consider a church... It's tricky though, when you go around the Denver churches to find out what mind they have, and who directs them.

Now the Pope is the head of the church, marries the Queen of Heaven, and intermediate tricks, co-redeemer, and then all these numbers they refer to the Catholic catechism, where you find this in the publication. Christ is sacrificed again every time the Eucharist is given. Now the Eucharist is this wine glass which only the Roman Catholic Church, only the preacher, only the priest, he's only the one who drinks wine. And the reason for that You know? Well, why is the wine not handed to everybody like we do? No, no. This is in the Protestant church. The Protestant church in Germany, they... The Catholic church? Oh yeah? In the Protestant church in Germany, they... They come to the altar, generally, in most Protestant churches.

Those who want to have the sacraments, they come to the altar and receive one glass, which is not glass, it's a metal container, and that's filled with wine. And as the pastor reaches around, They clean it off with a cloth and it's always turned and then washed again. But you drink at least with six or seven people. But in the Catholic Church it's the priest who drinks the wine and that's what they refer to here. And then the people get a sliver of bread away for you, whatever that may be, whatever the church does. But salvation comes through good works. It's a tenor? I didn't hear any signal yet. Did you hear it?

Well, you know, I let you not go without me singing the gift of the Spirit for you. I don't know whether you know this, but it's just the Galatians, what is it, 20? The Gifts of the Spirit. It's in Galatians, chapter 22. It's in bad tune, but to save time I'll sing it anyhow. God's gifts are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control. God gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. So there you have it. You don't have to add much to that. Okay.