Christ life & ministry through us results from walking in the...
2 Cor: 10:1-6 · Roger Henderson · Oct 1, 2017
2 Corinthians (2017), No. 37
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/410261635436388

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Today, we're going to start a new set. We're starting chapter 10. And actually, I used, you know, I initially used Hal's titles, but, you know, they're kind of repetitive, unfortunately. So I've kind of each time I go through, I've kind of tried to add a little bit here. So let's just look at this happens to be an outline that I found in my own Bible that I carry. So anyway, so this is an outline basically of the remaining chapters of the book, 10 through 13.

So. So basically, in today's verses, in chapter 10, Paul's going to answer his accusers. His accusers charge him. They have cowardice. I think vacillating is probably more appropriate for what we're going to see in verse 1. They charge him walking in the flesh, and they charge him with personal weakness. They don't like his demeanor. He's not a cool guy. He's not one of the fancy dressers, he doesn't look the part of an apostle, he doesn't talk the part of an apostle according to them, so they doubt. So this group of believers, I assume they're believers, maybe not, they're people in the Corinthian church, apparently a small group, that were challenging Paul and his apostleship. And actually, the rest of what we're going to see in 10-13 largely is going to be focused on that. So as we get into chapter 12, Paul makes some declarations about his apostasy. He makes some pretty incredible statements. He even says, I'm going to boast for a while. We're going to see some interesting things. Bob's not going to get to teach those hard lessons. I'm joking anyway.

And then lastly, he's going to announce his upcoming visit. and the conclusion of 2 Corinthians. So we're going to jump into this section, because this is kind of a departure. We've been talking about finances for the last two chapters. Now we're going to move into this new section.

And it's really interesting. There's some really cool verses we're going to see, especially today. I think they're helpful in our Christian life. And I've covered these verses before, but a teacher always learns a lot. And I felt I learned a lot in preparing for this class. And it's really neat. So that's kind of the game plan here. Today we're going to see about this vacillating charge and we're going to see about the charge of walking in the flesh. Those two things today. The next week, I teach next week as well, we're going to see more on his personal conduct.

They don't like how he looks, how he talks. And you can see that's so much our human nature. We're so tied in. I remember talking with people who didn't like They didn't like J. Verne McGee because he had a southern drawl. He said, he can't be that cool because he has a southern drawl. And I thought, man, you're missing the point. This guy understands the word, Tom.

I told you that, he's writing all covers of the Bible books. I know, I know. So, I don't know. It's just people, you know, and we're all that way. I'm sure I'm that way at some level. Certain people, you make an opinion about them. And the Lord doesn't want us to do that. He wants us to test that person against the Word of God. And we're going to see that at the end here. OK. So could someone read up 1 through 6 in chapter 10 for me?

Now I, Paul, myself, beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent and bold toward you. But I beseech you that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.

Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. Great, thanks Margaret. Okay, pretty cool stuff.

So you begin to see here just in the very first verse we're going to jump into here. There's going to be this, actually that second part of verse one is actually part of the charge. It's hard to see that, but the more you look at it, it's actually part of the charge. So let's just kind of jump into the first part.

Now, I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ. And that's just a wonderful verse.

But it's interesting, Paul, he doesn't hold back. his apostleship has been granted by the Lord Jesus Christ and he is not afraid to say that's what I am you may not like the way I look and the way I talk but this is what this is God's that's what he's given me this ministry I'm going to carry it out I'm going to tell you who I am and you know that might you know ruffle some feathers but I'm not going to back off because this is what God's charged me to do so but often implying a contrast now but So this is what I, myself, I, Paul, myself. Three references to himself. You think, wow, this guy's really stuck on himself. Well, and actually, if you look in Galatians and Ephesians, and you don't have to turn there, but basically, Paul has used before, or uses in other writings, he uses, behold, I, Paul, say to you, and that's in Galatians, and then in Ephesians he says, for this reason I Paul prisoner of Christ but in this particular letter he adds a word myself and there's actually a footnote to that which is on your handout you'll see and actually we'll get to it here it's this autos which is an intensive pronoun pronoun setting off an individual from all else he's saying he's pointing that this is Paul myself and he set off He set off from all others. It seems rather presumptuous, but this is what God has provided for us, that Paul focuses on himself here, and it's because of his apostleship and who he is. So he's saying, this is me, this is who I am.

I urge you, urge is to call upon someone to do something, to exhort. So he's continually urging them. That's the idea. Present tense, continual action. He's urging them But he's urging them, and urge is, if you look, it's also translated exhort sometimes. And in the Thessalonians passage here, it's translated exhort. We are exhorting and encouraging and imploring you as a father would his children.

So that's kind of the sense. But he's going to do it, dia, which is the Greek word for by, or through is actually better, through. And here's the two cool words, through the meekness and gentleness of Christ. And so meekness is the idea of this humble and caring spirit. And there's a verse that, actually that's one of the, if you look in the fruit of the spirit, meekness is one of the fruits of the spirit. So that's a characteristic of Christ. And then gentleness, is fairness, moderation, and actually some have used this really kind of unique word, sweet reasonableness, and it's only used actually in this particular passage here.

So this is of Christ. So if we think about this, he's saying that I urge you, I'm continually urging you, by Christ's life, if you will. Because that's the life that we have, according to Galatians. We have Christ's life. So the meekness is the fruit of the Spirit, and the sweet reasonableness is a characteristic of Christ. So that's what Paul's coming to them with.

I'm coming to you with the very characteristics of Christ in my appeal to you. And there's a verse that I thought was somewhat appropriate. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart. And there's actually another one.

Could someone read the Matthew 21.5 passage? It's somewhat similar to this. And this is kind of the idea of Christ's meek and gentle persona, and hence ours, as we walk in the Lord, walk by faith.

Matthew 21.5, tell you the daughter of Zion, behold thy king cometh unto the meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt of an ass. So it says he's gentle, right? Gentle or meek. You have Meek and Yours? Meek and Gentle are sometimes used interchangeably.

So that's a characteristic of Christ. Paul is going to appeal them in Christ's name with Christ's characteristics. That's what he's saying. Notice in the translation there's a dash. This part here is set off. He's going to describe himself as his critics have described him. It's hard to see. I looked at this multiple times. It's hard to see, but I believe it is because there are parallel verses that support that. Let's go to the next part. That's a footnote there. I who am meek when face to face with you, but bold toward you in absence. This is a charge of flip-flopping or vacillation, right? When he's face to face with you, he's meek. And when he's away from you, he's bold.

He writes these incredible letters. Can you imagine receiving Paul's letter? I mean, you know, if you could, first of all, you have to be reading Greek, right? I assume it would be okay that you probably would, could read it. But I mean, he just, his logic and mind boggling stuff. But when he came to you, he was this kind of this guy, you think, where's this guy?

Where did this guy show up from? I mean, and you, and actually, I was listening to some of the tapes from, A couple of years, 10 years ago with how and you know, there are there are pictures, not pictures. There are busts of Paul and he's not a very nice looking guy. I mean, I hate to say that he had bald. His nose was kind of weird and his eyes kind of bugged out and just he didn't present a very good persona.

And so, you know, his critics came after him. Well, you got to look good, you know, and we're we're much that way, too, I think. OK, so I who am. meet when face-to-face with you. So I liked the Amplified Bible rendered this way, I who am lowly enough, so they say, when among you face-to-face. And then there's a parallel verse that I thought was helpful here, and actually we're going to cover it next week. Because I'm going to read verse 10 in chapter 10 here, 2 Corinthians 10.

Well, they say his letters are weighty and strong, but his personal presence is unimpressive and his speech contemptible. So they don't like him too much, as they say. So we're going to see it here. It's important to kind of follow just kind of the pronouns here. They say who we have to kind of be very careful to trace that through here. So this is a different word for meek than the previous one, but it has a kind of similar meaning. Of mine, mean lowly, humble, modest.

And let's see, I have a 12 passage in. Can someone read the Romans 12, 16 passage? I mean, actually, I thought I had it written down. That's good. Yeah, 12, 16. Romans 12, 16. Be of the same mind as one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Yeah. Yeah, my husband is associated with a lowly.

So there, you know, this is what, this is how they are describing Paul. But bold toward you when absent. Bold is confident, courageous, and So this is what Constable kind of backed me up on this. This is a description of himself in 2 Corinthians 10 verse 1b is of his critics. So his critics are saying he's vacillating. He's one way when face to face, but a different way when he's absent. Okay, so now we go into verse 2. And this is a tough verse.

You have to read this verse a few times. I have a couple of translations with underlines and red marks and hopefully it doesn't, you know, sometimes you can over, have you ever, when you were in school, did you ever mark things up so much that you couldn't read it after a while because you marked and put so many, this and that. If you're in science and stuff, I mean, you just, you're marking it all the time. It's just, you know, so this is one of these verses that, you know, so here we go.

I ask that when I am present I need not be bold with the confidence with which I propose to be courageous against some, and it's literally some people. So does that make any sense? So he's saying, I think the bottom line here, he wants to come, his critics, he wants to be forceful, with the meekness and gentleness of Christ. But he wants to be forceful. He says, I don't want that to be misinterpreted when I come to you. So he says, I don't want to have some of that carry over.

I ask then when I am present, I need not be bold with a confidence which I propose to be courageous against some. And that's that these some people are the critics of him. proposes to count or reckon, or to count upon myself, or I would say better count upon Christ in me. So then here's the Weiss translation, which is hopefully helpful. Here's another crack at this first part of this verse. I beg of you, please, that when I am present, I may not be courageous with the confidence which I am counting. It kind of takes into account the translation of my purpose. propose rather, I count on myself being bold towards certain.

So he is called the certain, toward the certain are these some people. In the last part of the verse, who, the some people, regard us as if we walk according to the flesh. And according to is this Cataw word, it's a preposition, according to a normal standard. So they're saying that Paul's walking according to the norm and standard of the flesh, the Adamic nature.

So I put a few verses in there that we're pretty familiar with. It says walk by the spirit and you will not carry out the desires of the flesh. 19-21 are the deeds of the flesh. It has a whole long list of the deeds of the flesh. So one of the charges of his critics The first one was vacillating, we saw in verse 1.

Now we're focused on the one that's talking about, well, Paul, you're walking according to the flesh. Now, we don't get details about these, we just get these statements. We get the statements about his vacillating and walking according to the flesh, and we're going to see him answer those, but we don't get, well, give me an example of what they were saying. Scripture doesn't seem to, I haven't gotten that far, maybe there will be, maybe we'll discover something along the way, but I didn't see it at my first go through with this. So, we come okay on the same ground here? Tracking here okay? Alright, good. If you have questions, you know, feel free. Okay, so let's go to verse 3. Now, we're going to start into this little section here.

Notice here it says, For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. We're going to see this contrast between the Christian walk and the Christian war. War is going to be a metaphor for how we interact with false doctrine. Scripture uses war in a lot of different ways, and we're going to see that. But it's the walk in the war.

For though we walk in the flesh, in this case, flesh, I think it's not. Previously, it was our old sinful nature. I think he's referring here that he's a human being. for though we are ordering our behavior in the sphere of human experience. So Paul walked like any other person. He was a man.

Even though we walk, he says that's not how we're going to confront these false teachers, these people that are proposing false doctrine. How are we going to combat them? We're not going to combat them with human logic. We're not going to come to them I can help thank you. We're to come to them with God's word, with the truth of God.

That's what's going to make the difference. And that is a supernatural thing. And that's what makes the Christian life an impossible life, right? Because we're living a life that God is energizing us through the Holy Spirit. And that's the life that he wants us to live.

And that's not something that we can manufacture or do on our own. And so that's why that it's, you know, we're not doing it according to our fleshly bodies here. It says we do not war according to the flesh. But Roger, why do you think there's this transition then in the interpretation of flesh from verse 2 to verse 3?

Well, I don't know. I mean, it seems, it makes sense in terms of what you're saying, but... I know, I saw that too and I went back and I looked at it multiple times and I said, well, I can remember that's a charge. That's a charge. You're vacillating, Paul. And then it comes down. You're walking according to the place. And he says, well, I'm a man. You know, he said, I walk like any other man. But he wants to emphasize here that that's not walking like a man with human logic is not going to combat these these critics.

I think that's why it's a different even though it's the same. It's the same Greek word. I agree. And you could you could think he's trying to differentiate between walking as a man in the flesh. I mean a man, a human. Right. And then, but we do not war according to the flesh. I mean, do you think because maybe they're saying he's walking like every other man. He's trying to differentiate between the two kinds of flesh. In other words, being a human as flesh. Right. With that word. Right. And then, but the Christ, being in Christ, and then not being in that flesh, which is the sin nature.

I don't know. I mean, to me it seems a little trite. So Bob, what you're saying is, if I went back and What if I went back and I interpreted it the same, made it the same definition as I have here, that he was just walking like a mere man? Which would be a valid charge too. That's part of the Adamic nature, right? You're just walking as any other man.

And that's not the kind of war that he's carrying out. It's a spiritual war, which is referred to in the next verse. No, I understand. And actually, I'm not saying I have this all locked down. And flesh is a tough word because flesh, it's the same Greek word everywhere in scripture, but you have to look at the context. So I kind of went down the path of focusing on Adamic nature in the previous verse, and then I came to this one. It seemed like, based upon what Wyss said, Wyss kind of says it's human nature. But that's a good question. Maybe he's just making a play on words or something.

I don't know. The bottom line is, and Margaret hit it, He wants to point out that we cannot live the Christian life that way. We cannot combat these false teachers with any humanness. That's not going to work. He's just not going to get it. You're going to fail.

And he's going to say, we're going to war through a divine enablement, through God's word. I think you know what he kind of pointed to me? We don't realize the power of God's Word. God's Word is miraculous. It changes a person from a lost state to a saved state. That is incredible. Just by reading it and understanding it and believing it, you go from darkness to light. That is incredible.

But the other thing I would say is the critics are using the Word. You're walking into the flesh. But the critics wouldn't understand. And maybe they wouldn't understand the damning man. He wouldn't understand the two, and I think he's trying to say, yeah, we're human and we're walking in the flesh, this flesh that they are turned. This is a different flesh. The sin nature is different. We're not walking according to that. Because we're different people now.

I don't know. I'm just saying. Because it's the same word in the Greek. I know. This is great. Great discussion. Well, if you hold that flesh in the back of your mind, let's move on. The main threat here is we don't operate out of the flesh. However you want to look at it. Damn it, nature, we're just here. Let me get a little drink here. Someone answered.

He says, we do not war according to the flesh. And so I said, what does this mean in this context? And it's like, from what I've come and looking through this, war is used in the sense, we see that scripture is going to use that we're in this battle, the flesh versus the spirit, and scripture is going to use words that are military-like.

So let's look at 1 Timothy 1.18, can someone read that please? This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, So by then you fight the good fight. That's not a real strong one, but you fight the good fight. It's a fight, it's a war.

And then in Ephesians, actually let me just kind of summarize that. In Ephesians it talks about, if you turn to Ephesians 6, it talks about in 11-17, it talks about, for our struggle is not against flesh and blood. It says take up the full armor of God, It says, use the sword of the spirit. So we have all these military implements, right?

You have a shield, you have a sword, and all talks about and all interlaced that to the Christians interacting with people that he's opposed with. So Paul is contending with some people, these critics, is not contending with using human weapons. He wants to use the weapons that God has provided for him, his word, God's word. And that's going to combat some people or the critics.

So now for the weapons. of our warfare are not of the flesh, so here's the third time we've used it, but are divinely powerful. Boy, that but divinely powerful is really key here. And that's what kind of excited me about it. Wow, God's Word can do things, and it does do things.

Paul uses the metaphor of walking war, and here's a bunch of verses here. The first The first two, Galatians 15-16 and Ephesians 5-8, talk about walking by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desires of the flesh. Ephesians 5-8 talks about walk as children of light. So these metaphors of walking is how we conduct the Christian life. Then on the other side, we read 1 Timothy, fight the good fight. And then could someone read 2 Corinthians 6-7? By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left. Okay. Actually, I have the weapons. So that's That's how we do battle against those who would oppose God's word.

So the amplified half of the weapons of our warfare are not physical weapons, flesh and blood. Macaulay says, we're not to fight I like to listen to Macaulay when he has this. Actually, I listened to what you guys who were in the class back ten years ago, Hal says, and I listened to what Macaulay says. I liked what he said. We're not to fight fire with fire. Boy, that is really good, because I tend to fight fire with fire.

If a person says something, I come back with this, and I'm coming back with human logic, rather than come back and say, well, let's wait a minute here. Do you know about the Bible? They probably say, well, forget about this guy. How many times does he want to drop you right there? Come back with, well, there's a different view of this. We don't fight with human logic. Fire with fire.

But in strong contrast, we fight through the power of God, divinely powerful. And that's either powerful through God or actually King James has mighty through God. And that's what really got me excited. Powerful, this idea of strong, powerful. And there's several verses there and they all kind of talk about, they talk about, if you look in the Acts, I have a whole bunch here. I'll just kind of summarize it. The Acts passage talks about Moses was a man of power and word and deed. It talks about Paulus, I think in Acts 17, 18, 24, he was mighty in the scriptures.

Let's read 2 Corinthians 12.10. Someone could read that for me. We'll come to that in a few months here. Therefore, I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Right. So, you know, the Christian life is a life of contrast. Seeming...

I'm losing it here. It seems that we shouldn't be able to win. How can you win by presenting, believing what God has said? How is that going to change the situation? And God says it can. And then Timothy talks about, He is able to guard us against what I've entrusted to you against that day. So God's work, powerful through God.

That's how we're to contend here. for the destruction of fortresses. So now we're going to get into what's coming at us and metaphorically what does it look like. Destruction of fortresses or actually strongholds seems to be a better word for fortresses. Overthrow of strongholds. Either overthrow is to take down or pull down. There are a couple of passages there.

Let's look at the 2 Corinthians 13.10 passage for me. The idea of overthrowing, pulling down. Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification and not to destruction. That's 13.10.

It is. So I have, the Lord gave me for the building up and not for, I have tearing down. And you have? Well, given me to edification, which is building up. Okay. And not to destruction. Okay. Okay. Good. Yeah, that's it. Okay. All right. Good. Good. Okay.

So it's the overthrowing or pulling down of these strongholds. So this is another, all these military metaphors, strongholds, a fortress, metaphorically of any strong point or argument. So you kind of see what's going to happen here. Here comes these arguments, these strong points that man will create.

Well, you can't trust Paul because he doesn't look like an apostle. You can't possibly trust this guy. And who does he think he is? He's telling us that, he explains how he was taken up into the third heaven. You believe that? That guy, he was actually happy. You can see, even in today's world, if somebody comes along, you think, who are you?

And that's why we have God's word. Because we have to go back to some baseline, something that tells us the truth. So actually, this word only occurs a couple of times in the New Testament, but it occurs in Proverbs. I thought it was actually in the Septuagint, which is a Greek translation of the Old Testament.

A wise man scales the cities of the mighty and brings down the strongholds in which they trust. That's pretty cool. Okay, so now we're going to expand. The next verse, we're going to expand on these strongholds. It's going to tell us what these strongholds are about. Okay, so we are destroying speculations. Destroying again is the idea of pulling down again. Speculation. So this is the first part of these strongholds.

Speculations or reasonings. So we see that these critics came in with reasonings and thoughts. These seem to be the reasonings of Paul's critics in the Corinthian church. So they came with all these reasonings. So that's the first one. The second part, so you have speculations or reasonings, and then you have these lofty things.

Every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God. And every time you see all or every, it's this little Greek word called pas, most of the time it means all inclusive, none excluded. So the lofty things, it's kind of like a tower or something that's proud and raised up. Lofty things, and they're raised up, are exalting them, and it's against the knowledge of God. So, let's see here. Can someone read for me 2 Corinthians 11-20 here, kind of focus on this raised up, these lofty things raised up. where ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

There's a whole list of things buried in there, exalting himself. So these things, we've got the speculations, now we've got the lofty things, and they're raised up against the knowledge, against the true knowledge of God. And Wiest has it, every haughty mental evaluation which lifts itself up against the experiential knowledge of God. So these are the speculations and lofty thoughts are competing with what scripture has told us about God.

So that's apparently what was happening. They're coming along, and Paul's saying, so this is information for that time period, and it's information for us now. We see speculation, and there are all kinds of speculation. In the world outside of, and even within the church, there are all kinds of speculations and divergence. How do you know what's right? You've got to go back to some standard. That's what he's going to show here in a second.

We are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. This last part, when I had looked at this over the years, I thought, Boy, that's a lot of work. Man, I gotta work. I really gotta work. Doesn't it seem like, you hear that? We are taking every thought captive to the beatings of Christ. Man, I gotta get out there and I gotta work. Because, man, there are so many wicked things that come into my mind. You turn the TV on. I mean, it's just a barrage.

How can I do that? How can I take every thought captive to the beatings of Christ? It seems an impossible thing. You know, I said, when I started, I was kind of afraid. I got to tackle this last part. How am I going to explain this? Because I don't, I can't do that. I can't take every thought captive. What does he mean? So, so hopefully this is my, my, my go at what he means here.

The question is, what's the obedience? Okay. All right. We're going to get there, Bob. We're going to get there. That's, that's key. You're absolutely right. We're taking every thought captive. This helps a little bit too. Remember this is all in military terms. Imagine you're leading your captive. You're dragging him along. Here come these thoughts. You're going to lead him along some place. That's kind of helpful. Leading captive to lead away or to bring under control. You're going to do something with that speculation. You're going to have to do something with it.

That's what he's leading up to here. In the Luke passage, It talks about leading captives into the nations and whatever. And here again we have this every, and this makes it even more burdensome, every thought, wait a minute, I can't do this. And then I like what Macaulay had to say about this. And this is true.

You cannot control what comes into your mind. Once you turn on that TV, can you control what comes out of that TV and hit your mind? You can't. I'll pick Fox News. That'll be good. Well, Fox News is only human. Or I'll pick whatever. I'll pick a Christian station. But you can control what you do with it. That's what he's going to talk about here. Into the obedience of Christ. So what does obedience mean here? And this is key. This is one of the gems. If you get nothing else out of this class today, get this. Somebody asks you, give me a definition of obedience in scripture. What is obedience? Don't look at your notes. What's obedience? To listen under. It's literally a kuo, the word for hear, to listen under. So if you take that, The idea is to listen or hear under. So basically he's saying we are taking every thought captive into the listening under of Christ. So where do we get the listening under of Christ?

We get that from his word. Christ isn't here to talk to us. We get it from his word. So we're to listen under his word. That's what obedience is. It's not something, I've got to obey this, I've got to do this. No, I listen to what he has to say. So that's going to give us a key to how we take captive these thoughts. Here comes the thought, here comes God's word. I say, oh, okay, I'm going to lead you along. This says that, this says that, this is God's word, this is a thought, this is a thought that probably falls.

It doesn't measure up, it's gone. So that's why I think that takes the burden off me because I'm comparing it with scripture. It also takes the immediacy off that because it may take some time to sort through this. And actually it fits well with the context I think here because these teachers are coming into the church there. I try to summarize that, this is my little paragraph.

The things of Christ which are heard from scripture are to be, I think, I have a better word than confronted. It's actually the better word I think is thwarted. They're to be thwarted. They're to thwart the thoughts which originate with a false teacher. God's word is to thwart what comes to us from wherever.

And that's what Paul's telling the Corinthians here. You're taking captive to the obedience of Christ. His word. Don't you think, Roger, though, that it's also, if you're hanging out with him, and you believe what he's told us about ourselves, that we have his nature. Right, we do.

Then, I don't think you have to think about... And I probably have overemphasized that a bit. I don't think you have to think about, okay, what's this thought, and what's that thought. I don't think you think about that. because if you're in him and you have his nature and yes it's a process from the time you become a believer as you grow in him and that can take years but I think if you're in him those thoughts begin to just fall away those things begin to fall away because you are in him and you have his nature So you're not going there. Those thoughts taking over your mind. I mean, that's kind of how I think of it. I don't think of it that I have to kind of go, oh, this is a bad thought.

So what do I do with this? I think also is that this isn't so much concerned about, and this kind of struck me, does that mean that every time I hear a wicked thing or an evil thing that comes in, we hear plenty of that from the world, that I have to stamp that out.

Some of you just say, no, like you say, that's just not who Christ is. It's not us. I agree with you. But there might be some cases where if it's a subtle variation from scripture, so you're in a church situation and it comes along and you say, well, that I'm not quite sure I understand, so it may take some time. But some of you out you can outright throw in the wayside. Bob, you want the whole obedience issue is, I mean, Christ obedient to the law? He wasn't. He healed on Sundays. I have one for you that occurs to me. Obedience is to the faith, right? I mean, listen under, meaning what's Christ obedient to? He's obedient to his heavenly father. Exactly. And that's spirit led.

Unlike us. When I think about Your comment, it thinks of Christ which are heard from scripture to confront the thoughts which originated with these false teachers. I think that's the warfare you allude to. this idea that we have a choice means that we're intellectually considering what's right and wrong and that's death in the city I think often because the flesh is still so strong in all of us and I often say the more we grow in grace the uglier the flesh becomes because the light gets brighter. I think here if this in context is dealing with spiritual warfare that is kind of false doctrine then again I think that puts it into a perspective that's a little bit different than thinking of every thought that comes our way of evil natures. Well, and that's what I was trying to... I don't think this is a guideline to getting, you know, all the evilness that comes in. It's more focused, if you take it in the context, there was bad teaching or false teaching that was going on. He's showing us how to confront that. So it's more focused on that than it is on all the garbage that comes into our head.

Right. I don't know. I always like to go back to the thing that Christ said, I always do what I see my Father do. I do nothing except what I see my Father do. So that's listening under, if you will. That's the obedience. He's obedient to his Father, but what is he doing? He says, I always do what I see my Father doing. He doesn't have to see God. He is God. But it does kind of show us that he takes in who God is, in a sense. As we take in scripture, That's going to make the difference.

Anyway, so this is not an easy passage. It helps me because it takes it. Otherwise, if I say obedience, I think, OK, it's law. I think, well, I got to watch this and I watch it. No, I want to listen to what God has to say, what Christ has to say. And that's going to guide me. That's going to take me through this myriad of thoughts that are bombarding me. Now the tough part is, he's going to turn right around here in the next verse. Hang on to your seatbelts here.

We are ready to punish all disobedience whenever your obedience is complete. We, Paul, are ready to punish all disobedience. Eagerness, willingness, and that's kind of brought forth in that passage in 9.2 there. To punish, to execute judgment, whenever your obedience is complete. This is Weiss rendering of this verse, verse six. And being in readiness to discipline every careless, apathetic hearing of and disobedience to the word. He puts the word word in there. When your obedience shall be fulfilled. So what in the world does that all mean? So here's a, I like this, actually looking through this and kind of trying to trace through it.

It says, Paul was ready to come to Corinth and punish all disobedience to God's will. I would say better, God's word, not will, my will and word, I don't know. And his own apathetic, and his own apostolic authority. However, he wanted to do it only after the whole church had made a clean break with the rebels, with the rebels in the midst. So it seems like that, That's whenever your obedience is complete. He wants to see something happen there that they say, that's false. Those guys are putting out false information.

If they don't come to that point, think about yourselves. You try to convince somebody of something and if they don't come along to a certain point, you go nowhere. They have to want to see part of it. To get in a valid discussion with this, they have to come part of the way.

That's what he's saying. They have to want to come to a certain point before I can even discuss disobedience. So he wants to see some change in them. Yeah. They don't recognize there's a problem. No, I think they think these false teachers. They think that the way Paul looks is important or, you know, who's we here. OK. I have I put Paul. I thought it was Paul. Paul. Paul. Timothy. Timothy. Well, whoever's with him.

You know, we could be. the body of Christ there, too, when their obedience is complete, right? So, I mean, what's the metric of obedience? I mean, you know, it's just, anyway, I'm not being critical of your interpretation. Well, we're back to the core of obedience. If the core of obedience is listening under, and especially listening to God's Word, then we can sit down and have a discussion. If I say, well, Bob, you're disobedient, and you say, well, tell me what, I say, well, here's God's Word. You say, okay, now we have something to talk with.

I can say, well, You didn't interpret that right. Martin and I were talking on the way down this morning about how important the resurrection is in terms of the foundation of our faith. And if you're from the world system, and the world system doubts it, they don't believe it, even though it's documented, so what? So if you have someone who says, yeah, I do believe that Christ was raised from the dead, but they're not saved, then you have a conversation, right?

I mean, so, in a sense, that's the same kind of thing, spiritual warfare. Right. And I think the resurrection is the focus of everything we are and what we do and spiritual truth, right? That's an aside, but nevertheless, that would be spiritual warfare. Right. Well, I have an example. Actually, Bonnie and I, we have a relative that says he believes the gospel, but he doesn't believe that Christ is God. So, so Bobby, here's the point. There's a disconnect there.

So we got, you know, say, Lord, you know, he believes the gospel that Christ died for our sins. He was buried and rose on the third day, but he doesn't believe the resurrection. What's it? Well, he, he, I'm not sure he has thought through all that, but he doesn't believe that Christ is God.

So, so here we got, so there's, there's a problem there, right? And he says, well, I guess that doesn't mean, by your definition, I'm not saved then. That blew us away when he said that. Yeah, it just blew us away. So pray for us in talking with our relatives. I wonder who he thinks he is, if he did all that. Well, he comes from a certain denomination that... A.I. I think he believes this. Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, go ahead.

Does our obedience ever come complete? Do we ever arrive at a completeness? As we walk in this human life, we're always going to have a fall in nature. We always have Adam's nature. So it's going to come back again and again and again. But this is where, as it comes back, as our fleshly nature shows itself, we say, well, what has God said? We come back to what God has said.

This is what God has said. walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. That's the Christian life, the Christian warfare, if you will. Walking in the spirit, not in the flesh. That's our life in Christ. I love the word abide. Abide in Him. Just hang out with Him, as we just talked about. That makes it easy. It happens automatically. It's not to be, if I did that, I'd be out with my book. Thought one, thought two, I'd be going crazy.

Let's close in prayer. We thank you so much, Father. We thank you for this day. We thank you for the verses we've been studying here, Father. Just believe them, Father. Believe that we can listen under your word. That's what you really want us to be about. Listening under your word and agreeing with you about the truths of scripture, Father. Pray you'd help us, your spirit would guide us into those truths. In Christ's name.